ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on August 29th, 2011 at 6:13 am

Foreigner On Korean Bus Causes Ruckus

Via the Open Thread comes this video that has been circling around the Internet of a foreigner on a bus in Korea causing a ruckus:

The Marmot’s Hole has more details about what happened, but the foreigner is an American English teacher and the bus driver pulled over at a police station to have him arrested.  Apparently a passenger told him to quiet down because he was talking too loudly and he confused “니가 여기 앉아” as a term containing the N-word due to “니가”.

I have been reading the book Unchon-ni which interestingly even back in the 1960′s black soldiers were confusing “니가” with the N-word.  So this isn’t something that is new, but regardless hopefully this person is arrested for assault and forced to make appropriate compensation for this ruckus because despite the misunderstanding his behavior is completely inappropriate.

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  • Dr.Yu
    6:38 am on August 29th, 2011 1

    Regrettable. :shock:

  • googleJonathanHilts
    6:40 am on August 29th, 2011 2

    Foreigners who break the law and are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, should be punsihed the same as a Korean.

  • Tbonetylr
    6:59 am on August 29th, 2011 3

    “hopefully” what do you know? Aren’t people innocent until proven guilty in S. Korea?

  • Chris Hiler
    7:54 am on August 29th, 2011 4

    This infuriates me..he was being belligerent and abusive. I use public transportation and its not unusual to see behavior like this here.I was so naive about the ESL scene in Korea. I’m angry about this and quite frankly, really embarrassed.

  • Teadrinker
    8:08 am on August 29th, 2011 5

    #1,

    Yes, it certainly is. A big guy like that taunting a little old man, insult or not insult that’s just not right.

  • kangaji
    8:11 am on August 29th, 2011 6

    When keeping it real goes wrong…

  • ChickenHead
    8:17 am on August 29th, 2011 7

    Let’s see. What are our regular features?

    ROK Drop Open Thread

    Korea Finder

    and now…

    Reenforcing the Stereotype

  • Teadrinker
    8:33 am on August 29th, 2011 8

    #7,

    Well, it’s cause for concern. It’s almost October…and what’s October: National Bashing the Foreign English Teacher in the Media Month.

  • tom
    8:44 am on August 29th, 2011 9

    It won’t be long before our resident commenters are blaming Korean racism for this undeserved attack.

    Already, one blogger is blaming this on Koreans again. Because of Koreans are racist…. so this violence was justified.

  • Chris Hiler
    9:11 am on August 29th, 2011 10

    Oh..and anyone working in Korea as a language teacher should be able to distinguish between those two “n” words.

  • Dr.Yu
    9:23 am on August 29th, 2011 11

    I think the black guy was looking for trouble and found the perfect opportunity with the old man and I think he knew some korean as he was able to talk to the old man in korean before attacking him.
    What I find interesting is that people on the bus tried to ignore him and avoided him until the last moment, but not for fear but because they found the situation depressive.
    This guy did a good job to improve the image of english teachers and black people in Korea …

  • setnaffa
    9:24 am on August 29th, 2011 12

    Wow. An English Teacher gone past his expiration date. Whodathunkit? Sad that he’s American. Shows how poorly educated some of us have become…

    Whatever happened to “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me”?

    Oh, right, that doesn’t apply if your a protected minority…

    Or at least some folks don’t think so. How did he keep his job with that haircut? Black or not, don’t schools have dress codes for teachers? Are they that difficult to find?

  • Chris Hiler
    9:38 am on August 29th, 2011 13

    SETNAFFA

    Looking at the ESL scene from a distance..it seems younger trendy hipster types are quite popular there.

    As a middle aged professional white haired guy..I’ve been told my age and appearance would be a disadvantage.

  • Jeff
    10:43 am on August 29th, 2011 14

    Let’s see where this one goes. Is someone able to follow this case to the prosecutor’s office if it even goes that far?

  • guitard
    11:13 am on August 29th, 2011 15

    tom driveled:

    It won’t be long before our resident commenters are blaming Korean racism for this undeserved attack.

    Already, one blogger is blaming this on Koreans again. Because of Koreans are racist…. so this violence was justified.

    Tom ~ one Korean blogger is already saying that the elderly Korean man really did mean to say, “N!gger you sit here.”

    So that must mean it’s true…right?

  • Chris Hiler
    11:25 am on August 29th, 2011 16

    Even if the Korean man did say that..that does not justify the younger man’s behavior.

  • setnaffa
    12:00 pm on August 29th, 2011 17

    From Heinlein:

    What are the marks of a sick culture?

    It is a bad sign when the people of a country stop identifying themselves with the country and start identifying with a group. A racial group. Or a religion. Or a language. Anything, as long as it isn’t the whole population.

    A very bad sign. Particularism. It was once considered a Spanish vice but any country can fall sick with it. Dominance of males over females seems to be one of the symptoms.

    Before a revolution can take place, the population must loose faith in both the police and the courts.

    High taxation is important and so is inflation of the currency and the ratio of the productive to those on the public payroll. But that’s old hat; everybody knows that a country is on the skids when its income and outgo get out of balance and stay that way – even though there are always endless attempts to wish it way by legislation. But I started looking for little signs and what some call silly-season symptoms.

    I want to mention one of the obvious symptoms: Violence. Muggings. Sniping. Arson. Bombing. Terrorism of any sort. Riots of course – but I suspect that little incidents of violence, pecking way at people day after day, damage a culture even more than riots that flare up and then die down. Oh, conscription and slavery and arbitrary compulsion of all sorts and imprisonment without bail and without speedy trial – but those things are obvious; all the histories list them.

    I think you have missed the most alarming symptom of all. This one I shall tell you. But go back and search for it. Examine it. Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms as you have named… But a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot.

    This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. Look for it. Study it. It is too late to save this culture – this worldwide culture, not just the freak show here in California. Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile; we must again have books, of stable inks and resistant paper.

  • Tom
    12:34 pm on August 29th, 2011 18

    Yup. Just as I thought, it’s blame Korean time again. Go to Dave’s ESL and it’s the usual evil Korean men causing the problem, and the black guy was an innocent person who we must understand because he was provoked by the 61 year old Korean man. Other expat blogs aren’t much different, as most seems to be sympathizing with the attacker on the bus. He tried to strangle the Korean man because why? Because the 61 Korean grandfather told him to be quiet ( :shock: shock oh my god how could he!), and the crazy black guy went bonkers, trying to kill him. This is attempted murder, in my books. It wasn’t even racism, nobody said the N word, and nobody called the black man any name.

  • Tom
    12:49 pm on August 29th, 2011 19

    And talk about expats having a victim complex,

    The same ESL teachers are supporting Andre Fisher, victim of Korean racism that’s what they say. I guess he’s innocent because he’s American?

    http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=209541

    They even name this site, and they all think you guys are morons for not unquivocally supporting the foreigner.

    I think I have shown plenty, western expats have difficult time accepting any kind of responsibility for their poor actions. The blame game is getting very old, and tiresome.

  • Retired GI
    1:21 pm on August 29th, 2011 20

    #7 ChickenHead, as you know, stereotypes don’t magically appear out of thin air. They are started because that group as done this action enough to become identified with it.
    That being said; you mean to tell me; THAT long haired, jigaboo looking, uneducated monkey man is an ESL TEACHER?!! :shock: It won’t be long before young Korean kids speak english as poorly as American Kids.

    And Tom, nothing could make me defend THAT individual. The Koreans should have jumped his asss, beat him into a coma, and dropped him into the Han river to drown. Nothing that old couple could have said was deserving of his actions. Additionally, we don’t need him. Too frigging ignorant to be of any use, as his actions showed. For those just waiting to drop the race card on me, I would feel the same if he were an Anglo-American. So Tom, grab your buddies and feel free to hunt his asss down and rid the world of that trash. I for one will not cry.

    #17 Setnaffa, good post. From what book please. So that I may educate myself in this area.

  • John in CA
    1:27 pm on August 29th, 2011 21

    18,
    Act like a thug? Expect to be treated like a thug and deported like a thug.

    that thug is an embarrassment to family, nation, and race.

  • setnaffa
    1:47 pm on August 29th, 2011 22

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_%28novel%29

  • Tom
    2:14 pm on August 29th, 2011 23

    “The Koreans should have jumped his asss, beat him into a coma, and dropped him into the Han river to drown” :lol:

    I like you Retired GI. :lol: But if we do that, then we’ll be accused of racism until the next 100 years in the K-blogsphere. Agree. The pathetic part is the race card thrown in here, when it shouldn’t. There are confrontations shown on video clips uploaded to youtube, involving Koreans and the subway and bus all the time.

  • Burma Bob
    4:04 pm on August 29th, 2011 24

    The elderly gentleman should have used the tried & true polite terms: 연탄아저씨, or perhaps 깜등이, then everybody’s feelings would have been saved.

  • kangaji
    4:25 pm on August 29th, 2011 25

    Here’s actual racism, for comparison

  • buddha
    4:30 pm on August 29th, 2011 26

    well if the addoshi called him that the guy certainly lived up to the stereotype

  • ChickenHead
    4:41 pm on August 29th, 2011 27

    False alarm, guys.

    It turns out the whole thing was staged as a publicity stunt to promote a new film.

    Ajashi vs. Predator

  • Chris Hiler
    4:42 pm on August 29th, 2011 28

    ChickenHead,

    LOL are you betting on this match?

  • Innocent Bystander
    6:01 pm on August 29th, 2011 29

    Stereotype or not, the video reinforces typical generalizations (which are generally true) about African-Americans and Korean society. The brotha “raising up” against an elderly person; he definitely got his props for that act of courage. And speaking of courage; why the “F” don’t Koreans ever intervene when the situation calls for it?

    Still find it hard to believe that a THUG “see my rocks” has any ability to teach proper English.

  • guitard
    6:31 pm on August 29th, 2011 30

    I’m going to assume that since Orbit’s posts have disappeared, he is now under moderation.

    He contributed so much intelligence discourse here at ROKDrop…it’s really a shame.

    [USinKorea's note] As far as I know, he isn’t under moderation. Any comment that violates comment police can be edited or deleted.

    So, I think GI Korea just deleted the offending comments.

  • John in CA
    7:14 pm on August 29th, 2011 31

    #29
    ‘And speaking of courage; why the “F” don’t Koreans ever intervene when the situation calls for it?’

    They DID. It just doesn’t show in the clip. After the clip, passengers called on the driver to stop the bus in front of a police station. He did. As the thug was being escorted off the bus, he tried to go for the elderly Korean passenger again and other men on the bus had to restrain him.

  • Innocent Bystander
    7:33 pm on August 29th, 2011 32

    #32

    Good to know, still the situation was allowed to escalate way too long. Perhaps restraint was the best possible outcome. Empirically speaking, I’ve seen too much of “looking the other way” in Korea, it confounds me.

  • Tom
    7:51 pm on August 29th, 2011 33

    From Korean reports, the crazy lunatic hung onto the side of the bus door handle and wouldn’t let go, while the police and the male passengers tried to escort him off the bus. He was strangling the Korean’s neck, and if they didn’t get involved, there would have been a murder case in the headlines.
    :x

  • Retired GI
    8:04 pm on August 29th, 2011 34

    But let an American soldier pat his Korean Wife’s butt while exiting the train and watch the Koreans come out of the wood-work to “defend her honor”. GI Korea had a post about that one once upon a time.

    I can only assume that monkey-boy scared the crap out of them, since they didn’t jump him.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    8:24 pm on August 29th, 2011 35

    Yes I deleted his comments because Orbit was trying to start a flame war. If he posts something that isn’t intended to start a flame war I will post it.

  • Retired GI
    8:27 pm on August 29th, 2011 36

    Ok, what is a “flame war”? I get the general idea, but —

  • Orbit
    8:35 pm on August 29th, 2011 37

    #33 lol that’s funny. I wish whoever recorded the scene recorded that as well.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    8:49 pm on August 29th, 2011 38

    Retired GI, the subway case was back around 1994. Things have changed since then.

    That isn’t to say the same thing couldn’t happen today. A fair number of Koreans don’t like seeing mixed-races.

    But, back then, Koreans didn’t show public displays of affection – kissing, holding hands, arm around the waste – unless it was man-on-man or woman-on-woman…

    Now, it isn’t unusual to see Koreans under the age of 40 doing that in public.

    Also, there were very few non-GI Western expats in Korea back then. The hakwons didn’t really start importing foreigners until after 1995. The big boom was from about 1997-2000. Then in the mid-2000s, the Korean government started importing a lot of foreigners to teach in public schools across the country.

    That makes seeing the foreigner, and seeing the foreigner with a Korean woman, much less an oddity than it was in the early 1990s.

  • Tor Øyvind
    9:05 pm on August 29th, 2011 39

    A flaming is a tirade of personal attacks containing little or no other substance, a flamewar is a prolonged exchange of such tirades between two or more parties.

  • Tom
    9:22 pm on August 29th, 2011 40

    So Americans are now calling Koreans cowards? Wow.. double standard there. So what if Koreans in that bus mobbed the guy and started beating him up? If that happened, then people here would be accusing Koreans of extreme racism, with that 1994 subway incident replayed again.

    So let’s see now, if Koreans gang up on the American man, they’re racists. But if Koreans don’t gang up on the American, Koreans are cowards. But I get the feeling Koreans are going to be called racist cowards anyway, no matter what Koreans do, or could have done but didn’t.

    But thank god for those guys who got involved and protected that passenger from being murdered. This was an attempted murder, the American should be in jail facing charges. Yet he was let go by the police. Where are the charges that the police are being racist? Where are the charges that the Americans are getting especially targeted by Korean police who are looking for any excuses to put foreigners in jail? Where are they all? Because they all poof disappeared because the American got special favorable treatment from Korean police. That’s what fools in here want, special treatment. Nobody here cares about fair equal treatment under Korean law, they want special treatment. And by god, if they don’t get it, they’re going to boycotts and hold protests in Korean embassies.

  • Chris Hiler
    9:24 pm on August 29th, 2011 41

    Wouldn’t the usage of a term like “monkey-boy” qualify as a flame moment?

  • hardyandtiny
    9:43 pm on August 29th, 2011 42

    The black guy didn’t have the ability to verbally communicate his anger so he resorted to physical violence. It was really stupid and there’s not much to talk about, is there?

  • Innocent Bystander
    12:05 am on August 30th, 2011 43

    #40 (Tom)

    Double standard, that’s funny. Your post makes zero sense – all speculative discourse.

  • ArchieB
    12:09 am on August 30th, 2011 44

    There are Koreans who mouth off on the subway and buses about waygookins, especially those who have a couple bottles of soju in them. But what get so out of hand? Why hit someone? That’s just losing control and it’s incusable for any adult.

  • ArchieB
    12:13 am on August 30th, 2011 45

    incusable= inexcusable

    Now, as for how can someone dressed like a “thug” get a hagwon teaching job? There are some hagwons in Korea that will hire ANYONE. Hiring a “thug” is no big deal in the hagwon industry. Some of the people working at hagwons are actual thugs- wanted criminals.

    They even hire Russians, Eastern Europeans, and Nigerians, and they pretend to be from the USA or Canada. The sleazy hagwon owners have no shame.

  • ArchieB
    12:15 am on August 30th, 2011 46

    40- Tom, take a chill pill. If you want to protest in the korean embassy, that’s up to you. But this is a matter for the police to handle. Let them do their jobs before bringing politics into this.

  • TheLastWord
    12:42 am on August 30th, 2011 47

    On behalf of all foreigners…. we want everyone to know…. THAT STUPID POS IS CANADIAN, NOT AMERICAN!!!

  • TWOCENTS
    2:00 am on August 30th, 2011 48

    Although I don’t condone the actions of this guy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the old dude instigated it. I worked with an African American female soldier years ago who was waiting at the bus stop one weekend. Some old dude just came up to her and rubbed her skin, then looked at his hand. She didn’t strangle him though.

  • Retired GI
    3:19 am on August 30th, 2011 49

    @Tom #40, I already told you what I thought and STILL think the Koreans should have done with that Monkey boy.

    @Chris #41 As to your question. No, that individual acted just as an out of control monkey would have acted IMO. Therefore, I feel it to be a quite DESCRIPTIVE TERM. He surly was not dressed to earn respect. If you feel he deserves respect, than that is your opinion. I didn’t call him the “N” word. Although, I feel that would also be accurate. Feel free to be as politically correct as you wish Chris, but don’t expect me too.
    If a male or female acts like an animal, that is what they become in my mind. That CANADIAN (ht #47) acted in the video as an enraged monkey, so that is what he is to me.
    Now if I went on a tirade about all blacks are animals, perhaps that would be a flame moment. I’m not sure. But it wouldn’t be true. I would never say such a thing. Some of the best sex I have had was with black women. :grin: At least they know what they are doing. ;-)

  • guitard
    4:03 am on August 30th, 2011 50

    TWOCENTS wrote:

    Although I don’t condone the actions of this guy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the old dude instigated it. I worked with an African American female soldier years ago who was waiting at the bus stop one weekend. Some old dude just came up to her and rubbed her skin, then looked at his hand. She didn’t strangle him though.

    Hmm…of course, I wasn’t there and I have no idea what the old Korean man was thinking – but I would be willing to bet he meant no disrespect and did that purely out of curiosity.

    You have to view that action during that era (you said “years ago”) within a Korean context.

    The ol’ boy had probably never seen a black person before and was genuinely curious about her skin color.

    Provincial Koreans (that’s PC version of “hillbilly”) did things like that back then – to include among themselves – and no one thought anything of it.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    4:11 am on August 30th, 2011 51

    There is no excuse for losing control like that on a bus – especially yanking on a small woman.

    It is somewhat curious the man told him to quiet down.

    Korea does have a “don’t get involved” culture. It isn’t usual for Koreans to feel bold enough to “scold” a foreigner like that. I’ve seen very old Korean men do that to teenage or younger Koreans, but I’m suprised to see it done on a bus to a foreigner by a middle aged man.

    Of course, I have no idea how loudly the guy was talking.

    It reminds me of the photo of the small group of foreigners in the subway who sat down on the floor and were drinking, eating, and playing cards. I don’t remember reading that anybody felt bold enough to tell them to cut that crap out.

    But again, even if this Korean guy was drunk and said stuff to him, it can’t justify losing control like that.

  • Chris Hiler
    4:37 am on August 30th, 2011 52

    Anyone know what happened to that obnoxious “rock wearing” guy after he was escorted off the bus?

    I want him to be held accountable for bullying that older man. It really bothers me to see a foreigner behaving as if he’s better then the locals. That guy was being an ass.

  • Tom
    5:00 am on August 30th, 2011 53

    Where does it say he was CANADIAN? :lol: I think he definitely was American.

    Your question as to why any school will hire this thug. I have the answer for that. Because if they don’t hire him, they will be considered racist against blacks. Wouldn’t that be the accusation here as well?

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Like I said, no matter what Koreans do, it’s the wrong thing to do.

  • googleJonathanHilts
    5:13 am on August 30th, 2011 54

    “It won’t be long before our resident commenters are blaming Korean racism for this undeserved attack.”

    Yeah, because we all know that minorities including Korean halvsies have been allowed to florish, prosper and participate in all ways, at all levels in Korea. Unlike in America, or other countries for example, where Koreans are oppressed to the point where most don’t graduate from public school, become officers in the military, become high level politicians and so on.

    An expat Korean on a bus full of white and black people would have to be “understood” if they went nuts. That’s the usual line I’ve heard so much anyway.

    How many of you pale skinned foreigners here and out there know what it’s like to live in Korea as a person with dark skin? I’m sure certain people will get all anecdotal and say they have friends who are this and that, but they still don’t “know” what it’s like. Once again, you break the law, you should pay-don’t get me wrong.

    Oh, to Tom and everyone else, what went on BEFORE the cameras started rolling? Curious is all, just curious.

  • kangaji
    5:47 am on August 30th, 2011 55

    Dark skinned people I know in Korea? Well the guy from the Congo didn’t do so well, immigration was evil to him all the time, the guy from Ghana is doing great, except they STOLE THE CONGREGATION’S CHURCH BUILDING and now they’re meeting at Yonsei, the dark skinned Indian guy who programmed didn’t get as good treatment as he got in Seoul as in Silicon valley, but now he misses Korea/Japan so he’s going to work there again, my friend’s ex-boyfriend’s sister was convinced to go ahead and let her date the black GI after I explained to her that they’d break up anyway after he left for the states, and finally the guy who was in my first year class at Yonsei that actually had good pronounciation and a smooth speaking voice when he spoke Korean was very much adored by the people around him.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    6:31 am on August 30th, 2011 56

    No matter what happened before the camera rolled would justify what this individual did. Even if the old man called him a racial slur it does not justify hitting and strangling the guy. What happened before hand is only useful as a mitigating circumstance if he is held legally accountable for the assault.

  • kangaji
    6:35 am on August 30th, 2011 57

    According to MBC, he is an American Hakwon English Lecturer type, not Canadian, last name starts with H.

  • kangaji
    6:38 am on August 30th, 2011 58

    Article mentions that he (Mr. H) said he did the wrong thing because he didn’t understand Korean and wanted to appoligize.

  • SimonLeBon
    6:46 am on August 30th, 2011 59

    Tom, if you were on that bus what would you have done?

    Probably nothing and gone home to yap about it on the web.

  • Dragonfly
    6:53 am on August 30th, 2011 60

    Tom #40 said: “So Americans are now calling Koreans cowards? Wow.. double standard there. So what if Koreans in that bus mobbed the guy and started beating him up? If that happened, then people here would be accusing Koreans of extreme racism, with that 1994 subway incident replayed again.”

    Not knowing what was going to happen when I watched the video, I was hoping that the entire busload was going to administer a thorough and well deserved beatdown to “Mr. Rocks.” They all passed up an opportunity to administer Instant Justice. He is obviously one of those who has used his size, loud voice, and intimidating behavior to get his way. Secondly, THAT GUY IS TEACHING ENGLISH?!? I can’t imagine learning anything useful from that pile of shyte.

  • kangaji
    7:13 am on August 30th, 2011 61

    Here’s my translation of the MBC report on the aftermath of the incident for those that don’t read Korean

  • lemmy
    7:58 am on August 30th, 2011 62

    I am glad I am not black. I am sure it is difficult to deal with racist every single day of every week of every month of every year. And to not understand what someone is saying would lead me to believe they are racist too. You can take the boy out of the hood, but you can´t take the hood out of the boy.

  • Tom
    8:43 am on August 30th, 2011 63

    #62, how does a black man know someone who’s saying stuff to him is saying racist things, if he doesn’t understand what they’re saying? Could it be it’s all in his head, as this case turned out to be? This is a perfect example of someone mistakenly thinking that someone said racist things to him, but turned out wrong. How do I know if all those other everyday supposed discrimination are the same as this case? That it wasn’t all in his head, that he’s internalizing?

  • John in CA
    10:01 am on August 30th, 2011 64

    #58.
    Sorry my bottom man. The physical assault and the threats went on for 20 minutes I hear.

  • Linkles « Gucci Little Piggy
    1:30 pm on August 30th, 2011 65

    [...] too loudly on the bus or for, according to the black man, using the word “nigger”.  Some have noted that one particular Korean word sounds very similar to “nigger” and that [...]

  • Tor Øyvind
    1:54 pm on August 30th, 2011 66

    “So Americans are now calling Koreans cowards? Wow.. double standard there. So what if Koreans in that bus mobbed the guy and started beating him up?”

    They could at least have stood up and stared him down, perhaps tried to separate him from the old guy. Hopefully that would have been enough to ward off the incident. If not, I’m sure they would have been able to restrain the guy if they all mobbed him, so beating him up wouldn’t have been necessary.

    I would at least have wanted someone to step in if I had been on the receiving end of that.

    “If that happened, then people here would be accusing Koreans of extreme racism”

    If the beginning of that video-clip was provided, I’m pretty sure none of us would.

    “But thank god for those guys who got involved and protected that passenger from being murdered.”

    Seconded, I’m glad they did finally intervene, it was indisputably the right thing to do.

    “This was an attempted murder, the American should be in jail facing charges. Yet he was let go by the police.”

    I imagine this means the old man couldn’t be bothered to press charges, which in my opinion he should have done. (for assault, I think attempted murder is a stretch) Does that seem like a likely explanation, or are Korean police able to prosecute without the victim pressing charges? Any thoughts?

    “Nobody here cares about fair equal treatment under Korean law, they want special treatment.”

    I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about that, and if you’ll bother to read the thread you’ll notice that you’re also wrong about us supposedly siding with the black guy.

  • Tor Øyvind
    2:19 pm on August 30th, 2011 67

    Ah, should have refreshed before posted. I notice some people here are indeed insinuating that the black guy may have had some tenuous justification, at least for being upset. I stand corrected.

    I at least think the guys actions are inexcusable. He should not even have gotten agitated about mere words even in the event that there were insults, and getting physical without at least receiving threats of some sort is highly uncivilized. I don’t think highly of the guy at all, and resent any attempt to lump me in either with him or with the people making half-assed excuses for his behavior, or insinuating extenuating context to the incident (that isn’t even really extenuating).

    I wish he would face charges, and had he done that to me he would be.

  • The Sanity Inspector
    2:25 pm on August 30th, 2011 68

    This must be doubly shocking to the Koreans, since the elderly are given wide leeway for bad tempers they may have. Once, when deplaning in Gwangju, an old man got mad at the customs agent and shoved him. The agent, a young fellow, merely averted his eyes, apparently apologized, and carried on with his work.

  • Pablo Escobar
    2:58 pm on August 30th, 2011 69

    Koreans should run FBI background checks on all ESL teachers from the States. I assure you that this idiot is not an average college graduate from Pennsylvania.

  • Tom
    3:55 pm on August 30th, 2011 70

    What’s it like to live as Black people in Korea.

    How is it that black people in Korea’s description of life in Korea
    sounds so different from what white people say about what’s it like to live in Korea as a black person?

    This very assertion that black people are treated horribly daily in Korea, is usually told by white people. It’s funny what black people say that it’s not so bad in Korea.

    The worst they have to put up are stares, but then they point out, they have to put up with worse things in the US. Interestingly, they say the one of the worst things about Korea is the other non-Korean white foreigners who make stupid racist remarks (yes the same people who tend to say blacks are treated so poorly in S.Korea).

    Read some of the comments of their experiences from the real black folks.

    http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=25747883752&topic=8336#topic_top

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    4:41 pm on August 30th, 2011 71

    Some of us have actually lived in Korea and heard a fair number of Koreans talk about black people.

    This very assertion that black people are treated horribly daily in Korea…

    Typical Tom strawman argument. And like with most everything written in this thread, if you read the link he provides, you’ll find more to support the idea black people in Korea have to put up with much more than non-blacks than to support what Tom wants to read from it.

  • Teadrinker
    5:43 pm on August 30th, 2011 72

    #71,

    Count yourself lucky you don’t know him personally. He comes off as being someone who tends to poison the well. “I’m always right, no matter what you say.”

  • Tom
    6:05 pm on August 30th, 2011 73

    #70, staring, touching, unwanted attention, aren’t they the ones you guys complain about also? Those were the worst examples shown in those opinions. A number of them say it’s not so bad, certainly as not as bad as what white people say – that it’s a daily hell for being black in Korea. The only black blogger’s opinion that seems to fit your ideal of what it’s like to be black in Korea, is that metropolitan guy. I think you’ve been reading that guy too much because he’s anti-Korean, and that appeals to a number of you.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    6:32 pm on August 30th, 2011 74

    “a daily hell” — Strawman

    “I think you’ve been reading that guy too much” — Lack of reading skills/desire >>> “Some of us have actually lived in Korea and heard a fair number of Koreans talk about black people.”

    Of course, not having lived in Korea much, you wouldn’t have heard them.

    I’d love to see a Youtube video of non-Korean Canadians rubbing Tom’s yellow arms and gawking at him and how mildly he’d endure it and then see what he’d write on the blogs…

  • Tom
    7:08 pm on August 30th, 2011 75

    #74, when it comes to talking about blacks behind their backs, whites are probably the worst. Are you kidding? At least in Korea, Korean cops don’t stop blacks for nothing and kill them for nothing. Now all of a sudden white people are the champions of black rights in Korea? :lol: :lol:
    That’s a good one.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:45 pm on August 30th, 2011 76

    Another Tom Tactic: When pressed on previous comments, divert with off-topic racist-baiting. (Along with immature icons.)

  • Tom
    7:48 pm on August 30th, 2011 77

    White kids in Korean schools?

    :shock:

    Those kids must be having horrible time, says the expat who has no experience other then what he hears from other. But just like the case where if you ask the black people what’s it like to live in Korea, their answers are far different from what the white expats that live in Korea (so they must know better than anybody) will tell you.

    So if you go directly to the source (horse’s mouth) and ask the parents of those visible minority kids in Korean schools, the answers are also far different from what single white guys in Korea who’s never married and never kids in Korean schools, will tell you about Korea.

    http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=210675

    How could this be?

  • Tom
    7:52 pm on August 30th, 2011 78

    #76, how is it a race baiting? And I answered your question. Just because you live in Korea, it doesn’t make you an expert of Korea. Opposite of it – your views can get warped by your own bias and frustrations when you’re living in a foriegn country. In other words, it doesn’t make you an expert of Korea, just because you live in it.

  • Tom
    7:55 pm on August 30th, 2011 79

    Filipino wives and their children in Korea who go to Korean schools.

    Horrible racist Koreans?

    http://www.buhaykorea.com/2011/08/29/discrimination-pinoy-korean-kids-in-korean-schools/

  • Tbonetylr
    7:56 pm on August 30th, 2011 80

    Tom,
    I’m walking down a sidewalk next to an American base near a gate. A black woman is walking about 15 ft. in front of me and Korean teenager boys(8th or 9th grade) are coming our way, after passing her they make disparaging remarks and laugh at her. Suddenly they straighten up and say “Hi” to me respectfully. I couldn’t believe it, what a bunch of shit heads. Who teaches those kids that type of thing?

  • Tom
    8:05 pm on August 30th, 2011 81

    #80, considering that you’re one of the ones who have never said one thing other than something to trash on Korea, I don’t believe one word of what supposedly happened in your fiction.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    8:35 pm on August 30th, 2011 82

    Those kids must be having horrible time, says the expat…

    Strawman

    if you ask the black people what’s it like to live in Korea…

    Ditto.

    Tbonetylr, see, you are living in Korea, so you can’t be believed. Maybe if you write it on a blog – and then edited it to say what Tom wants to hear – then it will be believable…

  • kangaji
    8:37 pm on August 30th, 2011 83

    Well, the whole standing in solidarity by hating on the old man beater was beautiful while it lasted guys! I was touched by how everyone came together in a collective desire to beat his ass.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    8:38 pm on August 30th, 2011 84

    Kangaji, What? You must be talking about a different site! Tom said…….

    [being facetious]

  • Tom
    8:49 pm on August 30th, 2011 85

    #82, is Tbonetyler black guy living in Korea? Or is he a white guy?

  • guitard
    8:50 pm on August 30th, 2011 86

    Tom driveled:

    when it comes to talking about blacks behind their backs, whites are probably the worst.

    Gee Tom – I guess you’ve already forgotten why you were put on moderation a couple of months ago, huh?

    Yeah…it was your assertion that blacks cause most of the trouble for USFK and USFK would be much better off if it didn’t have any blacks.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    8:54 pm on August 30th, 2011 87

    Suddenly they straighten up and say “Hi” to me respectfully.

    Reading skills, Tom…

  • Tom
    8:56 pm on August 30th, 2011 88

    I was just repeating what I was told. I don’t know anything of those things. I guess they’re not true?

  • Tom
    9:00 pm on August 30th, 2011 89

    #87, meaning what? So those kids are dumb a$$ kids. I’ve had lots of kids come up to me and give me hard time for being ching chong, what’s the big deal? In southern Europe, it’s even worse. But do I go crying home to mommy and blame all the crimes against whites on racism, like so many of the commentators in Korea blogs are doing? So what caused the LA riots? Rodney King and the racist police or the Koreans?

  • Tom
    9:00 pm on August 30th, 2011 90

    I mean Korean shop keepers?

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    9:07 pm on August 30th, 2011 91

    Tom

  • Tom
    9:17 pm on August 30th, 2011 92

    #91, good one. :lol:

  • TWOCENTS
    4:47 am on August 31st, 2011 93

    Tom, funny how you cry racism, then throw racism back. Ah, you didn’t cry to mommy for being called ching chong when you were little, so it got bottled up and you are spending all your time venting those bottled up emotions by trolling expat blogs. Keep it up. I’m sure it’s therapeutic for you.

  • Dr.Yu
    6:14 am on August 31st, 2011 94

    I have been living in Latin America since I was 6 years old and had to endure many racial problems.
    Just the typical: people staring me at the street, calling me with names, asking me if I´m from south or north Korea, calling me smuggler , counterfeiter, chinese, Japanese, etc, people talking about my eyes and hear, people threatening to fight me because in their mind I was a master of martial art, people telling me that my people was slaving their people, people trying to fool me because I was a foreigner, cops being rude with me, and so on, and guess what: I never had to do what the black bro did to the old man.
    So, black people complain because they suffer from racism in Korea? Doesn’t happen the same in their own country? Why people complain about racism in Korea when they do the same in their own country?

  • ArchieB
    7:13 am on August 31st, 2011 95

    Tom, using Dave’s ESL Korean forums as “reference material” is about as low as you can go. Just because “Lizardlips2011″ posts something on that site, that doesn’t make it true.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:52 am on August 31st, 2011 96

    I did have an interesting coversation with a kyopo about her experience moving to the US when she was in third grade. She talked about how isolating it was because she was about the only Asian in the school. Of course they used that to make fun of her, and it hurt.

    But, I pointed out, kids are vicious. (We had started this conversation when I mentioned teaching elementary school in Korea was reminding me how cruel children can be.)

    She was fat at the time, so I said kids would attack her for that. If she’d worn glasses, they’d attack her for that. If she’d had red hair, white skin, and freckles, they’d have attacked her for that…

    I agreed attacking her being Asian was racist.

    The problem is that kids don’t know better yet. (Some never learn it is.)

    But, being a kid in elementary school is like living in a jungle as a pack of monkeys. Lots of fun things to do with the pack, but every once in awhile, you take a beating. And sometimes you never know where it is going to come from.

    Kids pick each other apart…

  • John in NY
    11:19 am on August 31st, 2011 97

    Growing up in NY in the 70s and 80s, I experienced much more blatant racism than I do now. I got it all, from the pulling of the eyelids, the ching chong bling bong, the kung fu poses, the constant reminders on “how things work in America”, etc. I received this from whites, blacks, hispanics, men, women and children. Actually, some of the more vicious stuff came from the adults. Now, the racism is more subtle and not as obvious but is still there. I find it somewhat fascinating though that in just a single generation, all this has changed for the better. That’s why I find it ironic that non-Koreans in Korea can take a morally superior stance on racism when it’s the same people (or their children) who were dishing it out to minorities just one generation ago back home. I think part of it is that when you’re the recipient of racism or “unfair” treatment it’s a lot more likely to make a dent into your psyche than when you’re the one dishing it out. That’s why they can be oblivious of how bad it was just a few decades ago for first generation minorities coming in.

  • setnaffa
    12:40 pm on August 31st, 2011 98

    Yeah, let’s change the subject to Koreans (and everyone else) are racists…

    Let’s ignore the boorish thug who threatened violence against old people and struck a woman…

  • Glans
    2:47 pm on August 31st, 2011 99

    USinKorea 96, here’s the source of your problem with children: you think they’re monkeys. You don’t respect them, they don’t respect you. Start treating them as the apes they are, and they’ll accept you as an ape, too. ;-)

  • Retired GI
    3:25 pm on August 31st, 2011 100

    Glans #99 was making a “funny”, but he just might be onto something there.

    (females sure like it when i talk about shoes) Like I really care about shoes. :twisted:

  • Fanwarrior
    4:20 pm on August 31st, 2011 101

    I agreed attacking her being Asian was racist.

    Doesn’t sound racist at all from your description. You just admitted that they would have attacked her for any difference. It doesn’t sound like they were specifically targeting her race so much as they were targeting her difference (which just happened to be race, in this case)

    Let’s ignore the boorish thug who threatened violence against old people and struck a woman…

    When you’re a closet racist looking for an excuse, there is little other way to go about it.

  • usinkorea
    4:43 pm on August 31st, 2011 102

    If you are attacking someone over their race, it is racist.

    The fact they were not die-hard racists but just young kids doesn’t change the fact they were attacking her because of her race.

    The fact they would have attacked her for her weight or some other factor is she’d been white also doesn’t mean that the attack based on race wasn’t racist.

    It just means kids are cruel to each other and everyone faces an attacks sometimes in elementary school.

    For her, it made her unique. She talk about it as if she were the only one belittled and just because she was Asian.

    But now that I’m teaching elementary school in Korea, and get to see how these 100% Korean students pick each other apart, and even pick individual students to gang up on regularly, reminded me of a different perspective on her story.

  • kangaji
    7:53 pm on August 31st, 2011 103

    fan warrior: IS your name based on fighting with fans like in Mortal Kombat/using Korean fan death when the windows are closed as your special move/Fandom Warring?

  • usinkorea
    9:13 pm on August 31st, 2011 104

    I’ve been trying to kill myself for 2 years now. How many fans do I have to put in my room before it works? (Maybe I should turn them on???)

  • Fanwarrior
    12:29 am on September 1st, 2011 105

    If you are attacking someone over their race, it is racist.

    The fact they were not die-hard racists but just young kids doesn’t change the fact they were attacking her because of her race.

    The fact they would have attacked her for her weight or some other factor is she’d been white also doesn’t mean that the attack based on race wasn’t racist.

    It just means kids are cruel to each other and everyone faces an attacks sometimes in elementary school.

    For her, it made her unique. She talk about it as if she were the only one belittled and just because she was Asian.

    Except, once again, they’re attacking her because she’s different. The difference happens to be race, but they’re not inherently racist in that they hate all Asians. As children they just pick on things that are different. This is an entirely different class of behaviour than what you find with a skinhead or something of that nature. They are actually racist.

    They don’t have the thought “I hate asians” in their head. What they have is “I’m a kid who doesn’t like things that are different, oh she’s different, I’m going to pick on her”

    This is not a racist line of thought. Trying to claim it is is an insult to those who have suffered genuine racist behaviour.

  • ChickenHead
    12:40 am on September 1st, 2011 106

    USinKorea…

    You are doing it wrong.

    Don’t use a fan. Use AC.

    I suggest an AC-130.

  • Glans
    12:54 am on September 1st, 2011 107

    ChickenHead is different, but I don’t hate him.

  • Retired GI
    3:35 am on September 1st, 2011 108

    I have to agree with Fanwarrior #105 there. For kids, you need only be a little different. For them, it need not be race but that’s as good a reason as anything.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    4:59 am on September 1st, 2011 109

    There is a difference between an attack being racist and the person being one.

    Perhaps we can say the kids picking on someone for their ethnicity is a racial attack, but that doesn’t mean they are racist. You don’t have to be a skinhead to do something that is racist. Or, to put it another way, one racist action does not mean the person is a racist.

    Which is what I was talking about from the start when I was talking to the woman: The kids weren’t making fun of her because they were racist and she was being uniquely singled out. Rather, she went through what pretty much all kids go through, because that age is in part a jungle in which individuals are trying to find their way within a group setting — part of it being picking on each other’s perceived weaknesses or soft spots…

    …that if they didn’t pick on her for being Asian, they would have due to her weight, or her height, or her glasses, or her red hair (if she’d been redhead) or for being a girl, and so on…

    But that doesn’t mean attacking her for being Asian wasn’t a racial/racist attack. Just as attacking her for being a girl wouldn’t have technically been a sexist attack.

  • Fanwarrior
    5:20 am on September 1st, 2011 110

    There is a difference between an attack being racist and the person being one.

    No there really isn’t. If the person behind the attack isn’t racist, the attack isn’t racist.

    It may be motivated by other reasons, but it is not inherently racist.

    [quote]Perhaps we can say the kids picking on someone for their ethnicity is a racial attack, but that doesn’t mean they are racist. You don’t have to be a skinhead to do something that is racist. Or, to put it another way, one racist action does not mean the person is a racist.[/quote]
    No, kids don’t have that kind of high level thinking unless it’s been bred into them.
    They’re picking on them because they’re different, plain and simple. If it wasn’t race, it would be glasses, short hair, long hair, yellow hair, a mole, funny teeth, etc.

    The attack doesn’t exist without the person and if the person isn’t racist, neither is the attack. Racism comes from intent. Unless the intent was to pick on her because they specifically hated asians, it’s not racist.

    But that doesn’t mean attacking her for being Asian wasn’t a racial/racist attack.

    That’s exactly what it means. They were attacking her for being different, the difference just happened to be her race, but her race wasn’t the actual target. Trying to project racism where none exists is pretty standard “victimization” mentality practised by certain people all around the world, but especially in western countries where people will bend over backwards to appease certain minority groups.

    labelling things racist attacks where none exist cheapens real racist attacks.

  • ChickenHead
    5:38 am on September 1st, 2011 111

    Children form groups based on similarities and believe those who share their characteristics are betters than groups which don’t.

    And it is even more complex than that.

    Start here:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/09/04/see-baby-discriminate.html

    As usual, everything turns to race.

    The issue is not his skin color. The issue is his behavior based on the values of a broken culture which self-identifies with race so deeply and so vocally that others are forced to take notice.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    5:46 am on September 1st, 2011 112

    Their intent was to do emotional harm (get under her skin) based on her ethnicity.

    I’ll stand by what I said: Doing a racist act does not automatically make one a racist. Or, put another way, just because someone isn’t a diehard racist, attacking someone using their race is a racist/racial attack.

  • Fanwarrior
    6:15 am on September 1st, 2011 113

    Their intent was to do emotional harm (get under her skin) based on her ethnicity.

    No, it’s based on her difference, which happens to be ethnicity at this point. You seem extremely hung up on trying to project racist intent onto children.

    The kids didn’t segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. “The Reds never showed hatred for Blues,” Bigler observed. “It was more like, ‘Blues are fine, but not as good as us.’ ” When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they’d answer, “All of us.” Asked how many Blues were nice, they’d answer, “Some.” Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb—but not the Reds.

    Bigler’s experiment seems to show how children will use whatever you give them to create divisions—seeming to confirm that race becomes an issue only if we make it an issue. So why does Bigler think it’s important to talk to children about race as early as the age of 3?

    From Chickenhead’s link.

    Race is not inherently an issue for children.
    They may segregate based on it, but not for a “Racist” reason, only because it’s natural to seek out those like us. Stop seeing race as “the big bad boogeyman” and try to view it just as another thing that’s trivially different about many people like needing glasses, or having a mole.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    6:47 am on September 1st, 2011 114

    I’m not focusing on some intent that defines the totality of the person. I am focusing on the objective act itself: Attacking someone based on their ethnicity.

    For example, let’s say a peaceful person whose never been in a fight in his life hits a really bad stretch in his life where he is under extreme pressure, and one day he gets in a confrontation in the supermarket and happens to end up shoving or hitting a guy.

    Did he assault the guy or not?

    Following from your view of racism, we can’t call it an assault because the man did not have a violent mentality that defined his personality.

    I would call it an assult based solely on the act itself.

    You argue that a racist act can only be done by someone who is a bonifide racist.

    That for an act to be racist the person committing it must be clearly identifiable as a racist person. That in order to judge the act, you have to know and be able to define the person’s personality.

    I disagree. The act can be defined without defining the person doing it.

    That is where we disagree. Our difference stems from semantics.

  • Fanwarrior
    7:00 am on September 1st, 2011 115

    I’m not focusing on some intent that defines the totality of the person. I am focusing on the objective act itself: Attacking someone based on their ethnicity.

    The basis is not ethnicity. The basis is difference. The difference is actually immaterial.
    This is where you lose it. You’re focusing on the specific difference in this case, but the reality is the driving force force is difference not, racism.

    I’m not focusing on some intent that defines the totality of the person. I am focusing on the objective act itself: Attacking someone based on their ethnicity.

    Analogies generally don’t work, and in fact this one has giant flaws all over it. Assault is generally a legal term for defining a specific kind of attack, but more specifically the term assault generally doesn’t address the intent behind the act, while referring to something as racist does in fact address the intent behind the attack. A better analogy might be comparing man-slaughter and murder as those speak directly to intent, or questioning whether or not it is fair to say that the person is a violent individual.

    I’d avoid making analogies, you make them poorly and they do nothing to strengthen your position.

    You argue that a racist act can only be done by someone who is a bonifide racist.

    That is the nature of racism. Racism is the intent and feeling behind the act. Let’s take a look at the “n-word” (I’d write it out, but I don’t know if you have a filter set up here). If a white person says it, its almost assumed to be an inherently racist thing, yet black people frequently use it. Why? Because it’s assumed they’re not using it to be racist, yet it’s a ridiculous notion that no intellectual could actually subscribe to. It’s the intent behind the word that makes it a racist word, and the intent behind the act that makes it a racist act. In this case the intent is based on difference, race is a vehicle, not the destination in this case.

    I disagree. The act can be defined without defining the person doing it.

    some acts can if they require no intent on behalf of the actor.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:00 am on September 1st, 2011 116

    Maybe logically, our differences would look something like this:

    If someone hits a homeroom over the fence, he must be a baseball player, because you say only baseball players can hit a homerun.

    Logically, that holds up as an argument, but a logical argument is only as good as its weakest premise.

    And I say the weak premise is that only a baseball player can hit a homerun. I focus on the act itself:

    If anyone picks up a bat and manages to make contact with the ball and hits it over the fence, it’s a homerun – regardless of the person’s sport’s background.

    Getting lucky once doesn’t make him a baseball player, but it doesn’t make sense to come up with some other name for hitting the ball over the fence because we’ve defined a “homerun” as something only a true baseball player can do.

  • Fanwarrior
    7:07 am on September 1st, 2011 117

    If someone hits a homeroom over the fence, he must be a baseball player, because you say only baseball players can hit a homerun.

    really just stop trying to make analogies.
    These aren’t even remotely close, it’s starting to get a little sad.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:10 am on September 1st, 2011 118

    The basis is not ethnicity. The basis is difference. The difference is actually immaterial.

    That makes no sense. The difference is ethnicity so of course the basis is ethnicity.

    while referring to something as racist does in fact address the intent behind the attack.

    And that is the heart of our difference.

    If I walk up on a scene in the street and I see a non-black person call a black person a nigger in the heat of an argument and spit on him, I don’t have to know what was going on before I arrived or get inside the non-black guy’s head to be able to define the name-calling and spitting “racist.”

    Conversely, I might want to conclude that the non-black must be a stone-cold racist, I can’t really do that without geting into the guy’s head.

    I agree with you that in order to define a person as a racist, you have to know them. Know their intentions.

    We basically disagree whether or not an act can be called racist without knowing what is inside the guy’s head committing the act.

    I’d avoid making analogies, you make them poorly and they do nothing to strengthen your position.

    I appreciate the vote of confidence…

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:11 am on September 1st, 2011 119

    These aren’t even remotely close, it’s starting to get a little sad.

    OK. If you’re going to start getting snotty…

  • setnaffa
    7:20 am on September 1st, 2011 120

    So many people trying to take the attention off the fact that a so-called “teacher” was so angered by words and tone that he lost his own words and struck out with his fists.

    Regardless of whether he is sorry or not, regardless of whether anyone is racist or not, regardless of it happening in Korea, the guy does not belong in his profession… Someday he’ll start smacking kids around for disrespecting him… Or their parents or his coworkers…

    It doesn’t matter what he says. He needs counseling and a chance to prove he can master his emotions. Somewhere away from impressionable students.

  • Fanwarrior
    7:23 am on September 1st, 2011 121

    OK. If you’re going to start getting snotty…

    If you’re going to make such obviously bad analogies that don’t even remotely address the issue, it has got to be said. I’d rather not spend the bulk of the conversation delving into the absurd and unrelated.

    There is no need to dumb it down or make an analogy at all. The issue stands on its own.

    If I walk up on a scene in the street and I see a non-black person call a black person a nigger in the heat of an argument and spit on him, I don’t have to know what was going on before I arrived or get inside the non-black guy’s head to be able to define the name-calling and spitting “racist.”

    Conversely, I might want to conclude that the non-black must be a stone-cold racist, I can’t really do that without geting into the guy’s head.

    You’re adding an additional act here.
    Keep it simple. There is no mystery that there is a double standard to the use of “nigger” in the west. It’s why the term “the n-word” was invented. If a black person uses it, it’s not remotely seen in the same light as if a white person uses it, even if it was used in the same context. While more intellectual people see that as ridiculous and will properly assess those situations, society as a whole does not, and instead assumes an intent behind the white person’s use of the word, and reacts badly to their use of it. Even in a situation where a black person might be using the term “nigger” in a negative manner. It’s all about perceived intent.

    The same goes for any racist attack, whatever it may be.

    We basically disagree whether or not an act can be called racist without knowing what is inside the guy’s head committing the act.

    Yes we do. Racism requires intent. It can’t exist any other way. That is what racism is. It’s a position that one race is inferior to another simply by virtue of existing. Children just don’t make that connection. Without that, you don’t have racism, and an attack can’t be racist without it.

    Children making fun of another kid for being a different skin colour likely aren’t even using any racist imagery, which is another requirement for a racist attack. They’re probably just saying stuff like “Your skin is darker/different/dirty” and other things like that, and probably weren’t delving in the realms of calling her a “yellow dog”, a “gook” or any of the other things we’d associate with actual racism.

    At an older age yes, but early elementary school probably not. Not unless the parents were teaching them these words.

    So basically saying “You’re different, you suck” isn’t inherently racist.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:30 am on September 1st, 2011 122

    By the way, the sad analogy fits what we are talking about:

    If someone commits a racist act, he must be a racist, because oly a racist can commit a racist act.

    If someone hits a homeroom over the fence, he must be a baseball player, because you say only baseball players can hit a homerun.

    I’m not sure if this is an example of circular reasoning or not, but the heart of it is your definition of a racist act: That it can only be deemed racist if you can define the person committing the act as a racist.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:47 am on September 1st, 2011 123

    setnaffa, There is not intent to distract. At this point it is just more interesting to me than the original event…

    …because the guy is either going to plead guilty or be found guily, fined, and have to leave the country, because he’ll either have been fired and lost his visa or his visa will be revoked as part of the verdict.

    Basically, he’s toast. And good riddence too him.

  • ChickenHead
    8:46 am on September 1st, 2011 124

    Don’t take that crap from him…

    …show him yer rocks!

    Dats wat I tought.

  • Tom
    10:09 am on September 1st, 2011 125

    no.123, how wrong you are, USInKorea.

    He’s free as a bird. See? Korea is not racist at all. We don’t put foreigners in jail anymore. I figured as much that the Korean prosecution office just didn’t want another case like the Fisher and White cases, where their families and friends and supporters gather around Korean embassies in the US and call for boycotts against Korea and calling Koreans, terrible racist people for putting foreigners in horrible jail cells that experiment in torture. And Korean government doesn’t want these unwanted attentions to smear the image of South Korea as a tourist friendly multicultural place for everyone to see. And throwing foreigners in jail, even if they committed those crimes, is now bad business. So they will try their best to hide these cases, so that bloggers who are fighting Korean racism against innocent foreigners, won’t bad mouth Korea online. Write-ups like below, is embarrassing for the Korean government.

    http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2011/08/when-the-nigger-starts-to-win.html

    Congratulations, guys, on winning preferential treatment for Western foreigners charged with violent crimes. The law enforcement will not prosecute them, other then just slap em on the wrist and way they go again.

  • Tom
    10:13 am on September 1st, 2011 126

    no.125 ^ of course now it will be interesting to see what will happen when there’s a Western foreigner on another Western foreigner crime. Now Korean police will have it from both sides. If they do something, they’ll be charged with racism. If they don’t, they’ll be charged with racism from the other side. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It will be interesting to see what Korean police must do now.

  • setnaffa
    11:17 am on September 1st, 2011 127

    #123, gotcha…

  • Retired GI
    1:48 pm on September 1st, 2011 128

    Dude in the video is a waste of skin — regardless of it’s color.

    But the “Metro” says he understands and has felt the same way a million times. So perhaps it IS the Race rather than only this individual. HT to Tom # 125.

    After all, stereotypes don’t magically appear out of thin air. So it isn’t this, what does the Metro call them — nigg (you fill in the rest) fault. He is the VICTIM of being born a Nigg–. *we should feel sorry for him* Right?

  • Orbit
    2:50 pm on September 1st, 2011 129

    fanwarrior’s argument is better.

  • usinkorea
    4:52 pm on September 1st, 2011 130

    Where is the information about his fate? Info that says no charges were filed? (If no charges were filed, my guess would be the man and woman on the bus decided not to press charges – if it works like it does in the US.)

    Plus, we have no idea what his hakwon is going to do. Since this has been widely publicized in Korea, chances are he’ll be fired.

  • Orbit
    6:41 pm on September 1st, 2011 131

    people here need to learn how to agree to disagree. because americans will not lose an argument

  • kangaji
    8:19 pm on September 1st, 2011 132

    Even if children can’t be racist, all racists are children….

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    9:15 pm on September 1st, 2011 133

    Orbit, it’s called the Socratic method, and has been at the heart of Western education for a long, long time. (So has the use of analogies…) It is a process meant to exercise the mind as it sharpens your ability to question or support ideas, and it’s supposed to be better than name calling, cheap shots, and insults…

    It isn’t unheard of in Korean social history. The 4-7 Debate is an example, and that is championed as one of the brightest achievements in Korean Neo-Confucianism…

  • Fanwarrior
    9:32 pm on September 1st, 2011 134

    Orbit, it’s called the Socratic method, and has been at the heart of Western education for a long, long time. (So has the use of analogies…)

    But that requires the use of appropriate analogies. Manslaughter vs Murder is an appropriate analogy. Hitting a home-run is not. A use of inappropriate analogies in modern discourse is used to distract and gloss over certain aspects of the issue. You’ve tried to entirely side-step the issue of exactly what children would say and how they would tease her about her race. I’d put money on it being exactly as I described it, unless the children had racist parents who were intentionally instructing them. With that being the case there isn’t anything remotely “Racist” about the acts or the children. The idea of racism is entirely a conscious human construct. If the children don’t participate or subscribe to that belief system, their actions cannot be seen as racist. Are they mean? Do they hurt? Yes. You’re trying to see this from the perspective of an adult putting your own personal bias and perspective on it instead of seeing it through the eyes of a typical child.

  • JoeC
    10:16 pm on September 1st, 2011 135

    The varying responses people have with the use of the N-word is not all that complicated to understand. For the most part it boils down to how familiar the people are with each other. It’s basically the same as the use of the pronoun m*ther f*cker.

    If you walk up to a group of people you are very close to and say, “How you m*ther f*ckers doing today?” You will get a very different response than if you walked up to a group of people who don’t know you at all and said the same thing, regardless of race.

    A black person who walked up to a group of other black folks who don’t know him and says, “How you n*ggers doing today?” Would not be received well.

    You will also find other boundaries that are exclusive to only those that are members of particular racial and ethnic groups. For example, only Jewish comedians are politically correctly allowed say certain things to a mixed audience that non-Jews are not allowed to say.

    I think most people are aware of all of this but feign ignorance.

  • Fanwarrior
    10:23 pm on September 1st, 2011 136

    The varying responses people have with the use of the N-word is not all that complicated to understand. For the most part it boils down to how familiar the people are with each other. It’s basically the same as the use of the pronoun m*ther f*cker.

    And yet imagine if white music artists used it in songs as much as black music artists did…
    do you think anyone other than eminem could get away with it? and I’m not even sure he uses it, I don’t follow him that closely. No, it’s much deeper than that. This is also reflected in culture commentary comedy where the one white guy who is friends with the black guys tries to be hip by dropping a “my niggers” or something that nature and it is poorly received, despite his apparent friendship.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    12:04 am on September 2nd, 2011 137

    “Manslaughter vs Murder” That’s more of a comparison than an analogy. I’ve already pointed out how the baseball player and racist analogies parallel each other…

    Next, I didn’t side-step anything. She isn’t around to ask. I, however, was the one who talked to her, and she was the one who experienced it first hand, but you obviously know the truth of her experience better than her or me…

    And with that, I’m done. We’ve already threshed out the ideas enough, and when it gets to the point you’re attacking the validity of someone you’ve never talked to based on how you want to view her experience, and then accuse me of projecting my own bias into it, it’s time to go…

    To recap for the last time – in my opinion (and of course there can be valid opposing ones):

    A child picking a person’s skin color as the means to demean them has the intent to harm based on race. That is racist.

    Does that mean the child is already a racist? No.

    Does that mean the child fully comprehends what he is doing? No.

    Does that mean he can’t commit a racist act? No.

    I’m done…

  • Fanwarrior
    12:15 am on September 2nd, 2011 138

    Next, I didn’t side-step anything. She isn’t around to ask. I, however, was the one who talked to her, and she was the one who experienced it first hand, but you obviously know the truth of her experience better than her or me…

    She doesn’t need to be around to ask. I was speaking of children in general. Have you ever been around children? Worked with them? I assume you were a child at one point yourself.
    It shouldn’t be hard to recall the kind of teasing one received/gave as a child, or other children did. It shouldn’t be that hard to realize there is nothing inherent racist about the things they say or do.

    A child picking a person’s skin color as the means to demean them has the intent to harm based on race. That is racist.

    No, this is false, and saying it 100 times doesn’t make it any more true. Their intent to harm is based on difference, you’ve admitted that yourself more than once. It’s only racism if that is the determining factor for the prejudice. They did not pick on her because she was asian. They picked on her because she was different.

  • kangaji
    4:17 am on September 2nd, 2011 139

    #137 And with that, I’m done. We’ve already threshed out the ideas enough.

    Yay.

    Here’s some candy.

  • Orbit
    6:04 am on September 2nd, 2011 140

    again, fanwarrior’s argument is better.

  • setnaffa
    7:21 am on September 2nd, 2011 141

    Again, Orbit should be banned…

  • Tom
    7:23 am on September 2nd, 2011 142

    Going back to the topic. Just imagine what this case would have looked like if there was no video involved, and only the print version was available. It would have been another automatic conclusion that Koreans are being racist to black foreigners. Thank god for the video.

  • guitard
    8:22 am on September 2nd, 2011 143

    Tom wrote:

    Just imagine what this case would have looked like if there was no video involved, and only the print version was available. It would have been another automatic conclusion that Koreans are being racist to black foreigners. Thank god for the video.

    And thank God for unbiased gyopos such as you Tom – who always champion the black man’s cause in Korea. Your unwavering support and dedication to the black man in Korea are truly admirable.

  • Merv
    9:06 pm on September 2nd, 2011 144

    Anytime a black man does something outrageous it always seems to carry dramatic racial overtones? This is not an accident. It is an inevitable by product of a system that most people are unhappy with. Clearly black folks have not cornered the market on arrogance, violence or stupidity. This guy’s blackness did not compel him to behave this way. His outrageous behavior is often tolerated, even promoted. Beginning in the late 1960’s in the US a new strategy began to develop in race relations. Black men were given a license to act like thugs as long as they agreed to reject achievement. As the cost of transportation decreased black people would live downtown and white people would move outside the city. Black people could riot in their own backyards and victimize other members of their community while whites would stay comfortably out of the way in suburbia. The idea has been promoted in the black community for a generation that being polite, respectful, or even patient is considered a trait associated with weakness. The bar has now been placed so low for black people that there is no bar. In exchange for relaxed standards of behavior comes the inevitable failure of the black man in a broader commercial society, the very aim of the new social compact. The blacks who adopt the motto of entitlement at any price can’t succeed and the rest of black folks who are horrified by such behavior are painted with the same broad brush as their thuggish peers making their climb to the top that much more difficult. There is enough blame to pass around in the context of this failed social contract that no one should escape blame. But I hope that most who read this realize that most black people who view this video do not identify with the perpetrator in this video.

  • Jupiter
    10:52 pm on September 2nd, 2011 145

    “stereotypes…are started because that group as done this action enough to become identified with it…”

    “…long haired, jigaboo looking, uneducated monkey man…”

    “grab your buddies and feel free to hunt his asss down and rid the world of that trash”

    Ironic that a discussion on what qualifies as racism is taking place only a few mouse-clicks below this shit. But it’s cool– the poster insists he would carry the same sentiments for any Anglo-American acting in such a manner. Moreover, he couldn’t possibly be racist: he’s had sexual relations with black women before!

    Sorry to interrupt a productive semantic debate. Please carry on with dancing around the elephant in the room, and continue ignoring the fact that Retired GI’s response to the black English teacher’s behavior was as inappropriate as the English teacher’s response to the old Korean guy’s alleged slur.

  • vince
    1:33 am on September 3rd, 2011 146

    Oh come now, the young man was merely expressing himself culturally.

    Embrace Diversity, and don’t be hatin’!

  • JoeC
    2:34 am on September 3rd, 2011 147

    #144

    Looks like you are the describing the phenomena that led to what is known as the “angry black man” (ABM) caricature. The black version of the I’m-mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to-take-it-anymore guy.

    He probably first started to achieve popular definition on the early 70s when people first noticed the dichotomy between the Martin Luther Kings and the Malcolm X’s. He could always be found somewhere in some form but then the Blaxploitation films came along and solidified the caricature. For some, he was no longer the exception, he was the rule.

    After a generation was raised on him he became a kind of counter culture super hero for minorities and the oppressed in film and music, and, as probably in this case, a role model.

    When Hollywood needed him, they couldn’t go wrong when they assigned the archetypal Samuel L. Jackson. But over time they realized the 2 dimensional formula doesn’t work for every case and they needed to be more nuanced. Imagine how different the Malcolm X movie would have been if he were played by Samuel Jackson instead of Densel Washington.

    But caricatures, stereotypes and 2 dimensions still works for most people. Sometimes we need our super heroes and arch-villains. If you watch the Daily Show or Bill Maher, you will often hear laments that they wished the president would bring out his inner ABM. While at the same time, his opponents often go out of their way to identify him with it.

  • kangaji
    6:54 am on September 3rd, 2011 148

    #145: I was trying to be subtle about it in #25 so the elephant in the room and Tom wouldn’t go in an argument circle. Questioning retired GI’s potential racism puts him in the same category as Tom and Orbit, which validates their idea of the site having a double standard toward GI’s vs. Kyopo’s being racist and what posts gt aceepted. This in turn makes GI Korea and usinkorea look like fair weather liberals and further validates Tom and Orbit.

    So, instead of disturbing the elephant in the room you should simply realize that he think s that political correctness and the race card have gone too far, and this is his form of rebeling against the abuse of the race card rather than actual racism. If it is understood in this way and the elephant in the room is politely reminded that he may have gone too far… then he will become defensive and angry. And a defensive and angry elephant tends to mess up the room further. So, let’s be more subtle next time.

  • vince
    8:52 am on September 3rd, 2011 149

    Oh my. The bloody savage acts like a savage, and someone calls him out for acting like a damned savage, perhaps using a few choice names, and now the person who calls him out for acting out like a damn savage gets called “racist”.

    What a fun game!

  • Retired GI
    10:12 am on September 3rd, 2011 150

    Vince #149, it is fun isn’t it :lol:

    For a few days there, I thought the world, or at at least those who arrive here, had grown. I was filled with hope for humanity. I had called the savage, a savage with the addition of a few other terms. No one had called me a racist. WOW!

    I even pointed out that I knew a few and had been physically close with some.
    I went further and pointed out that I would feel the same if the savage were an Anglo.

    But some fool STILL couldn’t understand.

    I wonder if I should just state that I do not know any BLACK FOLK, have never known any black folk. Have never been friends with any black folk. Have no desire to befriend any of them there jigaboos.

    I wounder if that would be exceptable. Because as amusing as it is; saying that you know them and actually are friends with a few, does not get thru to some of them.

    They just want to throw that race card. It is a free pass some of them think. Thay what to shut down any voice that will call them on the facts.

    As usual, I blame Political Correctness — and the liberal mind set — that has kept the black man down — but he is usually to uninformed (stupid) to understand.

    It reminds me of this e5 I knew in 2001-3. He was an Anglo and married to an African. They were a strange pair. She sounded like an Anglo on the phone and he an african. He was a Squad leader in Stanley and I at the Hump in 2003. He called one day to tell me a story. It went like this: Sarge, I think I understand what you have been going thru now. I ask what had happened. He went on to tell about this new soldier he had. A black female! Well, she didn’t like his atitude for some reason and confronted him with the race AND sex CARDS. I asked him if he had pulled out his wedding picture. He laughed and told me he had. Difficult to say an Anglo don’t like africans when he is married to one.

    I think back to how different my military career would have been if I had married “Slim” back in the day. Slim was my nubian princess. Great a$$! Long legs. Not fat like most of them these days.

    That being said, the dude in the vid acted like a wild monkey. So that is what I called him. “Slim” would have agreed with me. But “Slim” was no monkey. She was my Nubian Princess!

    From now on, I will simply say that I do not know any blacks. Nor do I wish too. At least it will demand that they attack from a different side.
    Attack they will. The game is fun! :twisted:

    But I do run the risk of GI Korea deleting my post. He really wants to be more of a Liberal. For the life of me, I don’t know why. Liberals are ruled by their emotions.
    How else can you explain Obama’s election. He didn’t know chit, had never done chit. Perhaps it is “white guilt”? Trust me, blacks depend on it to excuse their bad actions.
    Don’t you dare disagree with Obama! If you do, your a RACIST! Only in Amerika.
    I could go on and on, but I’ve other things to do. Enjoy the next six years of Obama’s rule. ;-) (or is that 6.5 years Kushibo) I strive to be accurate. ;-)

  • Mohamud
    11:32 am on September 3rd, 2011 151

    That was savagery. I dont understand what poor excuse someone would have for acting in such a way. Hope they lock him up for that. Me thinks though that this is some stage managed thing. There is nothing to even remotely suggest racism or anything of that sort on here. Well the Nazis are having a rally in Milwaukee today. http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/129103613.html

  • kangaji
    2:42 pm on September 3rd, 2011 152

    Rretired gi: games aside is nashville in your driving range? I might be able to meet tom langley this month and it would be good to have a. Rokdrop meeting of sorts

  • Retired GI
    4:37 pm on September 3rd, 2011 153

    Kangaji, I could be in Nashville TN. on just about any Saturday. Fort Campbell is about 4 hours north of me. Add another hour or two for nashville. Here is my email; nastynick69@hotmail.com. Pick a location where being armed won’t be a problem. A korean bar that serves soju would be nice as well. ;-)

  • kangaji
    4:49 pm on September 3rd, 2011 154

    Yes. This will work out.

  • vince
    6:25 pm on September 3rd, 2011 155

    144 Merv, you get it. Right on.

    It’s time for ALL of us to be civil- and not make excuses for those who refuse to be civil.

    It isn’t us vs. them– we have to live together. Why not at least TRY being decent to one another?

  • ChickenHead
    7:41 pm on September 3rd, 2011 156

    A thug just as big as an ox
    was yellin’ and flashin’ his rocks.
    But if ajushi’s quick,
    his NBC stick
    would send him back home in a box.

  • vince
    9:15 pm on September 3rd, 2011 157

    Now– in all fairness– did the older Korean man make some snide remarks to the Korean lady with the black man?

    If so- he, too, is WAY out of line- to the stocks for him!

    Read that on another forum. Anyone who understands Korean better than me pick up that from the video?

  • kangaji
    9:27 pm on September 3rd, 2011 158

    They’re telling him to stop, let her go, somebody call the police, one usage of saekki and one usage of kaejashik but nothing racial and the usages of saeki and kaejashik are after he says “i kae saekki ya”. Most of it is begging the “a.jeo.ssi” (Mr. H.) to Please stop.

  • kangaji
    9:35 pm on September 3rd, 2011 159

    Vince – what’s the other forum? Provide a link? this video doesn’t have anything like that from what I’m hearing.

  • kangaji
    9:55 pm on September 3rd, 2011 160

    Vince – eyewotness claims that there was no racial talk here

  • kangaji
    9:58 pm on September 3rd, 2011 161

    I’ll translate the report for you guy s tommorow.

  • Tom
    11:58 pm on September 3rd, 2011 162

    #159, Vince’s post once again illustrates how western foreigner sites are trying to twist this incident around so that it will look like their version of the event to show how evil and racist the Korean men are.

  • vince
    4:06 am on September 4th, 2011 163

    Tom, don’t get yer bowels in an uproar- I think the fella on the other forum was very poorly articulating a possible contributing factor but in looking at his post, it appears more like he’s bitchin’ about being a black guy and having been hassled himself before by Koreans.

    That isn’t kosher either, but looks like a FALSE ALARM by someone who writes in English worse than I do.

    Koreans ARE “racist” but we have taken that word and turned it into something which always has a negative connotation. There is nothing wrong with being concerned about the culture and traditions of your people remaining as untainted as possible from the outside– NOW, that said, everything, including races and cultures, evolve over time for better or for worse. And yes, I will say that some cultures are way ahead of others in some ways. Good book to read for food for thought is “Guns Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond.

    Now- being an arrogant d1ckhead because one person thinks his p00p doesn’t stink because he is of one group and another fella is from another group is just that- being an arrogant d1ckhead.

    All bets are off if you are involved in rounding people up and killing them just because they are different than you.

  • vince
    4:08 am on September 4th, 2011 164

    Disclaimer for my last post– I am NOT pickin’ on Koreans for being concerned about their culture. They have good reason to be concerned about all the rapid changes. This can’t be easy for a people who really were a “hermit kingdom” for thousands of years. We need to cut them some slack on this from time to time. Above all, try to understand each other.

  • Dr.Yu
    6:51 am on September 4th, 2011 165

    #144,very interesting. I agree with you.

  • jay
    3:56 pm on September 4th, 2011 166

    Given that Korea isnt the most racially friendly country in the world, resorting to violence for the what he assumed to be a racial slur is
    more wrong than being a racist. “You can take a man out of the ghetto, but you can’t take the ghetto out of a man.”

  • Tom
    8:01 pm on September 4th, 2011 167

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH2Bt5qONB0&feature=relmfu

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUxOENkQPI0&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhWJycHEVYE&feature=related

  • sallysampson
    11:15 pm on September 4th, 2011 168

    Tom would hide under the seat and hop some ajumma protects him.

  • Mohamud
    11:43 pm on September 4th, 2011 169

    #144 What are these strategies? Are these government sanctioned strategies? And how does gentrification come into this? My assumptions was that low income people moved to the inner cities but nothing to do with strategies. There is a wave of gentrifications going on in many urban areas now not just in the US but many other countries.

  • Orbit
    9:41 am on September 5th, 2011 170

    #167 cuz he was born in korea

  • Tom
    11:51 am on September 14th, 2011 171

    LA Times plays the race card. Suggests that it’s Korean racism that caused this incident to happen. I find it highly offensive that this paper doesn’t even mention the 20 minute attack on the passengers that this guy perpetuated. Instead all I read are weak excuses to hide behind the racism issue. I notice the reporter is a foreign expat in Korea who was hired as a free lancer. In other words, probably another know it all English teacher.

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-culture-korea-20110911,0,3970189.story

  • Retired GI
    12:53 pm on September 14th, 2011 172

    171 Welcome to “cracker” land Tom. :twisted:

  • ChickenHead
    1:32 pm on September 14th, 2011 173

    I’m with you, Tom.

    The reporter, along with a bunch of other excusers and rationalizers, are complete idiots and need to be exposed as such once and for all…

    …as they have tried their best to represent this as an innocent guy getting racially insulted by racist Koreans and rightfully reacting to this outrage…

    …much like black Rodney King rioters were simply “blowing off steam” as they looted and burned surrounding neighborhoods… while armed-but-peaceful Korean business owners standing watch over their livelihoods on their own property were “inciting violence”.

    So let’s take a look at why John M. Glionna of the Los Angeles Times should get a very public Stupid Reporter of the Week Award.

    Trying to foster doubt and excuse the actions of this criminal, he said…

    “Versions vary over what started the fight last month.”

    Is that so?

    Now where could we find a credible witness to settle this?

    How about we look ONE PARAGRAPH AHEAD in the article… where the perpetrator of the crime tells exactly what happened and what triggered it.

    “I felt offended when the man in the seat said ‘Shut up,’” the teacher later told police. “And while I couldn’t understand the Korean that followed, I felt he was disparaging black people.”

    So. It wasn’t about race at all.

    It was about a loud, “dreadlocked man, wearing a baggy blue shirt and a backwards baseball cap” running his trap and being told to shut it…

    …and, instead of realizing that nobody wants to hear his shucking and jiving, he IMAGINED that people were talking about his race in a language he did not understand, and got all uppity and violent…

    …and perpetuated the EXACT stereotype the article condemned other publications for pointing out.

    Or, maybe, as he “couldn’t understand the Korean that followed”, he didn’t think his race was an issue at all… but he brought it up knowing a lot of suckers would make it the central issue while reducing the blame on him for being a thug beating up on a woman and an old man for telling him to be quiet.

    Come on, people. Get your priorities straight. There is NOTHING anyone on the bus could have said to warrant that reaction…

    …and any myth that there was a racial motivation for the confrontation has been dispelled by the single person who could accurately dispel it.

    So the reporter here is an idiot… as the facts he reported perfectly countered the racist opinions he tried to insert.

    Did Stars & Stripes buy the LA Times?

  • Tom
    2:08 pm on September 14th, 2011 174

    The article complains that the Korean paper says..

    “The article described the teacher with language that might be viewed as playing on racial stereotypes, terming him a “dreadlocked man, wearing a baggy blue shirt and a backwards baseball cap.”"

    I watch the video, and that’s what the black guy is really wearing. How is the Korean paper going to describe this dude? How is this a stereotype when the black guy is matching exactly the description that is supposedly a stereotype?

    Black guy attacks a 96 year old man in British Bus.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBPoFkq7ezs&feature=player_embedded

    Black guy attacks a handicap white man in an American bus. (This -video below- happened because that black man went through a lot with racism from white Americans :roll: ).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0wrNeAV2gU&feature=player_embedded

    It seems to me, a lot of black people are jumping a lot of people around the world in buses, not just in Korea. And a lot of news media in the West have covered them (not just the Korean media). How is this all any different from Korea? Why are Western ESL teachers using this incident to justify that it’s racism in Korea which is the root cause of it all?

  • guitard
    2:55 pm on September 14th, 2011 175

    Tom – why are so lame at disguising your racist tendencies in your posts?

  • Tom
    3:50 pm on September 14th, 2011 176

    #175, because it was your countrymen’s bloggists and reporters like the LA Times who made it racial.

  • guitard
    5:33 pm on September 14th, 2011 177

    Tom – thank you for again confirming that you’re a racist.

  • Mike Shepherd
    12:47 pm on December 10th, 2011 178

    Teachers have certainly changed since I was at school.

  • ChickenHead
    12:59 pm on December 10th, 2011 179

    Anybody have a follow-up on this winner?

  • babs123
    5:06 pm on February 6th, 2013 180

    l

  • babs123
    5:16 pm on February 6th, 2013 181

    This is so offensive I wish I didn’t see it. I can’t believe this mans behaviour. They really need to start checking criminal records before employing loonatics to teach their children. What a cowardly man, he knows most Koreans are non confrontational and wouldn’t retaliate because they wouldn’t want to bring shame on themselves by doing so. He wouldn’t dream of doing that in his own country, he wouldn’t live long.

 

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