By Here is the latest criminal incident to hit USFK:
Five children of U.S. military servicemen here have been apprehended for assaulting a Korean man, and stealing cash as well as other valuables from him in early September, police said Sunday.
The Yongsan Police Station in central Seoul said that the adolescents, aged between 15 and 20, followed a 27-year-old Korean man and beat him up in Itaewon on Sept. 4. They robbed him of cash, a cellular phone and other valuables worth 200,000 won ($180).
Police said a resident in the area reported the crime. After viewing surveillance cameras monitoring nearby streets and questioning eye-witnesses, police officers arrested the five offenders.
“Three of them were found to be minors. In accordance with the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) signed between the United States and Korea, we handed them over to U.S. military police after questioning them about the alleged crime,” an officer said.
Under the accord, the Korean law enforcement authorities are required to hand over U.S. soldiers and their family members committing crimes here to U.S. military authorities.
The incident was made public a day after the U.S. Armed Forces here issued a late-night curfew keeping soldiers inside bases for a month following a series of crimes by servicemen. [Korea Times]
Of course a curfew would have done nothing to prevent this, but it does make it look like USFK is doing something.
Anyway you can read more at the link but I find it interesting how the Korea Times is trying to twist this as being a SOFA issue.
6:59 am on October 9th, 2011 1
Yeah, bring more dependents to Korea.
8:17 am on October 9th, 2011 2
The Korean man must have been drunk, he made himself a target. It’s his fault.
8:37 am on October 9th, 2011 3
Surely if active duty service members can be curfewed so can their minor children. As far as the 2 over 18, I say book’em Dano. Hand them over now. Sounds like a little gangsta action.
8:43 am on October 9th, 2011 4
I’m not sure “children” is the word I would use to describe “adolescents, aged between 15 and 20″. From the headlines, I had visions of elementary school droogs out for a bit of the old ultraviolence.
Nonetheless…
I’m starting to see why the general is reactionary-grade pised.
I’m also starting to see why the Family Readiness Groups may be needing info on the curfew.
If there are more incidents that haven’t seeped out yet, there may be an even more restrictive curfew in the works… guess we have to wait and see. Based on the level of panic sweeping upper USFK management, it would not be unreasonable to expect a revelation or two more.
This brings up some issues which should be addressed.
If minor USFK dependents can engage in violent robbery yet must be handed back to USFK without the Korean legal system getting first dibs, it IS a SOFA issue.
Is USFK running a juvie hall to deal with offender such as this? No? Then what mechanism does USFK have to deal with it?
In the past, I have seen these little hoods simply shipped quietly back to the States… no punishment for them and no real affect on their families.
If USFK truly is interested in public perception of the Alliance enough to replace war training with rape and alcohol training, USFK needs to openly punish these offenders in a way which will satisfy the Korean public instead of keeping it all a secret… which it has been for a month.
Further, their parents need to be loudly punished for not taking care of business.
There are many qualified people who can manage both a job and their family who would be happy to come to Korea. Cancel all SOFA privileges for the parents of criminal children. Publicize this to the Korean media as well.
And, for military parents, there are certainly Korean-public-pleasing sanctions that will remind them to reprioritize their family management… plus some weekend “Guess You Should Have Shaken Your Baby After All” training.
Another issue here is… what the funk are 20 year-old dependents doing here? Without exception, all of the no-job post-high school dependents I have ever seen were nothing but trouble… selling drugs, shoplifting, stealing from bars and GIs, etc.
Once one of these losers is done with high school, they should get a SOFA-status job or switch to a non-SOFA visa.
This continued SOFA protection for people who are NOT protecting Korea, and are generally up to no good, is a rightful SOFA concern for Korean citizens.
I should add that if you have a high school-age daughter and you let her stay out late at night around the villes, she is letting drunk GIs do things to her that you want to do to prostitutes.
9:00 am on October 9th, 2011 5
If I remember right dependent children once had a curfew but I’m not sure if this is a faulty memory. Anyone?
9:30 am on October 9th, 2011 6
Dependants in Korea is not consistant with “Fight Tonight”
If so it should be “Fight tonight, Bring your Kids!”
10:18 am on October 9th, 2011 7
I agree somewhat. Dependents in Area I is asinine. It’s NEO tonight and fight sometime later, I guess. Funny, Eighth Army once had the NEO mission but somehow slogged it off to the ONLY MANEUVER BRIGADE IN KOREA!!!
12:48 pm on October 9th, 2011 8
Well, with the soldiers locked in the bases somebody has to keep up the good fame of the US soldiers in Korea, right??? Good kids …
12:53 pm on October 9th, 2011 9
The 2 punks over 18 should be fed to the lions. let the Koreans lock them up for a couple years in a korean prison. And put a boot up their parent’s asses.
1:04 pm on October 9th, 2011 10
#9 that will never happen. They will never serve one day in jail for committing crimes in ROK. But they will be quietly shipped back to America where they will continue their criminality until caught, then they’ll finally serve some time in jail.
4:02 pm on October 9th, 2011 11
10. “that will never happen. They will never serve one day in jail for committing crimes in ROK. But they will be quietly shipped back to America where they will continue their criminality until caught, then they’ll finally serve some more time in jail than they would have in Korea.”
You may be right on this one Tom. Soldiers get turned over to the Koreans. Even if *gasp* it takes a couple days. I don’t know how they deal with dependents. Often the Soldier has to stay in Korea and the entire family gets shipped to the states. For some this certainly causes a lot of hardship (if it makes you feel any better). But I agree, the perps are all over 15 and old enough to know right from wrong. They should be punished. Absolutely.
5:43 pm on October 9th, 2011 12
#10,
It will never happen because the sentence for such a crime in South Korea, especially if the accused do not claim innocence and pay “blood money” to the victim, is not a couple of years long.
5:46 pm on October 9th, 2011 13
#11,
Nope. A more logical solution to the problem would be to send the minors to juvie until they turn 18, at which time they will be released, and the book should be thrown at the two adults in the group for involving minors in their crimes.
8:25 pm on October 9th, 2011 14
I remember a US juvenile who seriously hurt an elderly man and then robbed him several years ago. He was taken by the USFK authorities and sent him back to the US to protect him. Of course, no punishment whatsoever. Korea must be the only country in the world where the foreigners can just come in, rob the people, and the US military protects them from being punished.
8:35 pm on October 9th, 2011 15
Yes, since a Korean in the same situation wouldn’t serve time in jail for this particular crime, it is unlikely these dependents will either…
They’ll apologize, pay a fine and/or restitution to the victim, and maybe get a suspended system.
8:39 pm on October 9th, 2011 16
Since Tom’s been lying lately, links would help. And knowing how crimes are handled when it is Korean-on-Korean also helps understanding what Tom likes to claim – as with these dependents: Since there is nothing about the man being hospitalized with major injuries, what would be unusual in this case would be to see the Korean court sentence the dependents to several years in jail. Letting them go with no jail time after paying a fine and apologizing would be the norm…..
11:26 pm on October 9th, 2011 17
Tom wrote:
This is probably beyond your level of intellect…but I’ll try anyway.
Forcing a family to send a 15 year old back to the US – when the active duty parent has no choice but to stay in Korea – is a punishment much worse than having to go to court and pay a fine.
1:01 am on October 10th, 2011 18
From the comments on this bulleting boards and acts committed by Americans… we can derive what Americans are thinking :
1. All Korean women are easy lay.
2. Even if you rape one, you WILL get off free easily or stay in an American Army supplied Korean jail for “westerners” …
3. Korean law (regulation) is general lenient on GI’s raping underaged girls.
4. Even if you mug a Korean who had a perfectly good right to get drunk and go home in one piece, YOU will get off free.
5. On the contrary to what many on this board and Americans believe, SOFA takes away much of Korean rights in prosecution of crime offenders.
6. In South Korea, some 30 thousand Americans are under SOFA protection. That ! is too many.
7. Solution: Get those GI Joes off this peninsula and put an age limit on those who can serve here. You only have a token force any way. Replace them with KATUSAs who are probably lot smarter and more disciplined then the whoremongers….. KATUSAs paid next to nothing… it would be a win-win situation for all.
There… easy ain’t it?
2:19 am on October 10th, 2011 19
I don’t think teenage dependents who are out of control is a situation unique to Korea. Every base I’ve been assigned to, the majority of crime committed on base is done by teenage dependents. Hell, we got a letter from the housing office here at Hickam telling us to lock our doors as teenage dependents have been breaking and entering on base. For fuck’s sake, I have to worry about that crap living on a military base!?! Same jackasses go overseas and think they can get away with the same crap offbase. They ought to be canned at a minimum….
2:33 am on October 10th, 2011 20
#18,
Easy is another way of saying simplistic.
3:41 am on October 10th, 2011 21
1. Strawman (All) – but you won’t have too much trouble if you don’t look like a mutant. It isn’t as easy as it was 10 years ago, but still pretty easy. (Here, the non-Asian is exotic.)
2. You will get a much, much weaker sentence than you would in an American court or the US military court system if it were given to them. Korea’s a pretty “sex abuser-friendly” nation in terms of jail sentences. — But, the prison is now for all foreign inmates – not just the Western.
3. The Korean system is very lenient on all sex crimes. It is something anyone who reads the Korean press for a year or two notices and talks about.
4. You will get a sentence in line with Koreans who commit the same crime — which means you’ll apologize, pay a couple of thousand dollars to the victim, and get a suspended sentence.
5. Utter BS — showing clearly the person posting this either doesn’t know what he is talking about or is not telling the truth on purpose. Name some cases where the Korean court did not get to prosecute the accused GIs.
6. Nonsense statement.
7. More idiocy. Korea’s sex industry generates more money annually than fishery and agriculture. Red-light districts operate in the open. You can’t throw a rock without hitting a love hotel or some other business catering to whoredom. Koreans attacking foreigners for using prostitution is about the stupidest thing possible.
It would help people attacking the SOFA if they were not so ignorant about facts and reasoning.
But, I’m for pulling all troops out of South Korea.
4:19 am on October 10th, 2011 22
We agree on one thing… unilateral withdrawl of American forces from S.Korea….If it really does happen S.Korea should develop nuclear weapon….also long range missiles prevented from development by the U.S. Government.
4:25 am on October 10th, 2011 23
It’s not a matter of finding agreement.
It’s about being ignorant of facts one is claiming.
4:29 am on October 10th, 2011 24
Homeboy,
You are mostly wrong.
“1. All Korean women are easy lay.”
Yeah… back in 1970 when everyone was poor… or back in 1990 when many bargirls were looking for a way out. Now, Korean women are better educated, more worldly in outlook, not impressed by average whitey, and have good economic opportunities. While being an exotic foreigner might get your foot in the door in meeting a Korean girl looking to get her freak on, getting laid out of it is going to depend on the work you put into it… and that ain’t easy.
“2. Even if you rape one, you WILL get off free easily or stay in an American Army supplied Korean jail for “westerners” …”
It is doubtful anybody will get off “free”. If Koreans would stop complaining about the SOFA in these situations and let the American military justice system take care of rape cases, the “justice” will be much very, very harsh.
The “American Army supplied Korean jail” is still a jail. If Koreans would like to see serious criminals do harder time, false SOFA-inspired pride should be thrown away, they should be willingly turned over to the American military justice system, and the harsh result should be well-publicized. But Koreans should be willing to accept a finding of not guilty when it is determined that the parties are truly not guilty. The SOFA does rightfully protect GIs against emotional cries of the public.
“3. Korean law (regulation) is general lenient on GI’s raping underaged girls.”
Much more-so than American law and military law… but it isn’t just lenient on GIs. Korean law is rather lenient on rape for everyone… considering the lifetime physical, mental, and social damage it does to the victim.
Once again, Koreans seeking justice should happily turn over rapists to the military justice system.
“4. Even if you mug a Korean who had a perfectly good right to get drunk and go home in one piece, YOU will get off free.”
When GIs are involved in these cases, e.g. Andre Fisher, you are wrong. They get turned over to the Korean legal system.
When dependents are involved, it isn’t so clear. Dependents seem to be quietly shipped back to the States in victimless crimes like drugs and, in other crimes, seem to be quietly shipped back to the States after paying the blood money to victims.
Being shipped back to the States is a logistics and financial inconvenience for the family… but it isn’t justice.
I wish someone could give examples to the contrary. Anybody?
“5. On the contrary to what many on this board and Americans believe, SOFA takes away much of Korean rights in prosecution of crime offenders.”
This is not true. I once thought it was… but a complete reading of the SOFA showed me otherwise. I doubt many of the Koreans who complain the loudest have read it all or can show any unfair aspects of it.
The SOFA gives Korea compete rights to prosecute and punish off-duty soldiers.
The SOFA does protect GIs who commit “crimes” while performing official duties… as with any complex organization, accidents happen and some of these are technically crimes under Korean law. It is correct to protect soldiers performing their assigned duties in good faith with no criminal intent from some of the irregularities of Korean law.
If an on-duty soldier commits a true crime with malicious intent, there is no question he will be handed over to the Korean legal system or punished by the harsher American military legal system. Show an example otherwise if you disagree.
“6. In South Korea, some 30 thousand Americans are under SOFA protection. That ! is too many.”
There are 30,000 Americans contributing to the Korean economy. There are a handful of serious crimes each year. In reality the “SOFA protection” in not a burden to Korea… except in terms of pride… which is based on a minority of Koreans causing trouble through rather than the reality that the SOFA is fair.
“7. Solution: Get those GI Joes off this peninsula”
If someone cares about the overall success of Korea, that is the wrong thing to do. While a few violent crimes against Koreans are terrible, the ability for Korea to spend tax money on social and infrastructure improvements while letting the American taxpayer cover the cost of the American presence, is a better plan in the big picture.
“and put an age limit on those who can serve here.”
Excellent idea. There are far too many young and new soldiers sent to Korea. Coupled with a lack of leadership and no mentorship, there is a lot of possible trouble waiting for these young and immature soldiers.
“You only have a token force any way. Replace them with KATUSAs who are probably lot smarter and more disciplined then the whoremongers…”
There are few whoremongers in today’s military. It is now a crime, which is actually enforced, and the Korean bars that used to supply whores are waaaaaay overpriced.
“There… easy ain’t it?”
Not so much.
The reality is that the SOFA is not the problem. The problem is poor leadership in USFK which does not discourage, and sometimes indirectly encourages, certain types of crime to happen. If Koreans would complain less about SOFA and complain more about USFK not providing guidance for its soldiers, there would be fewer problems.
4:34 am on October 10th, 2011 25
#23, your view is absolutely misguided and condescending… Anyway I believe every nation has right to self-defend…. If Americans let Koreans defend itself with i.e. ICBMs, Hydrgen boms, SSBMs that could reach anywhere on earth, the. We don’t need all these GIs running around raping underaged girls and harass Korean women…;)
4:39 am on October 10th, 2011 26
@25 Yea, because Koreans behave so well when they go overseas… See http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AIDS_ASIA/message/747 If the U.S. leaves, Korea becomes a vassal state of China, even if you get nukes. You guys are getting wonderful deal at the expense of the U.S. taxpayers. Not saying our soldiers shouldn’t behave better, but you Koreans are damned ungrateful.
4:41 am on October 10th, 2011 27
I can’t believe all you guys are wasting your time responding to Tom and Orbit’s twin troll.
4:53 am on October 10th, 2011 28
#26, to set the record straight South Korea is an Ameican Vassal state….also, should Koreans let their women and girls show ‘appreciation’ by letting GIs pork’em whenever they get horny?
5:01 am on October 10th, 2011 29
Homeboy isn’t Tom.
Given how factually wrong he is – and now his ideas about what should be – I’m starting to think he is a non-Korean expat troll pretending to be a Korean.
5:06 am on October 10th, 2011 30
We should let the USKF send back those kids to USA and handle their problem by themselves. This is not an isolated problem but a general problem of the US society which is suffering a moral and ethic values crisis lattely. Those kids are looking for problems, so let them find in their own country at their own government expenses.
5:07 am on October 10th, 2011 31
Everybody is a troll who doesn’t agree with USinKorea.
5:09 am on October 10th, 2011 32
Thing is the U.S. Government will not let one of its best performing protege i.e vassal state to go under Chinese sphere of influence…. There is someone or a group of people in Washinton making decisions like aforementioned….
adios amigos
5:19 am on October 10th, 2011 33
“Yeah… back in 1970 when everyone was poor… or back in 1990 when many bargirls were looking for a way out. Now, Korean women are better educated, more worldly in outlook, not impressed by average whitey, and have good economic opportunities. While being an exotic foreigner might get your foot in the door in meeting a Korean girl looking to get her freak on, getting laid out of it is going to depend on the work you put into it… and that ain’t easy.”
Korean women of especially the college age group have their special way of paying back to foreigners who’d ‘teach’ them English for ‘free’… here Westerners are at a massive advantage.
5:31 am on October 10th, 2011 34
31. Sometimes I agree with you Tommy Boy…
7:16 am on October 10th, 2011 35
Let’s see if the US will extradite Arthur Patterson who killed a Korean man in the Burger King in 1997, but was freed and fled Korea.
He is in custody right now, after getting caught for more crime in the US, and the trial is underway to see if he will be extradited back to Korea.
Let’s see what the US will do.
7:15 pm on October 12th, 2011 36
35 TOM. Happy days, happy days. I know you wanted an excuse to jump up and down and shred your clothes over US injustice but look behold:
from: http://www.rjkoehler.com/2011/10/12/97-itaewon-murder-case-suspect-faces-extradition/
The prime suspect in the murder of a university student in Itaewon, Seoul 14 years ago has been caught in the U.S. and is undergoing extradition proceedings. The Justice Ministry on Monday said Arthur Patterson, the then-17-year-old son of a U.S. Forces Korea civilian employee, is accused of stabbing Cho Jung-pil, then a 23-year-old student at Hongik University, nine times in the toilet of a hamburger restaurant in Itaewon in April 1997.
Oh, and fear not the statute of limitations:
The murder took place 14 years and six months ago, just six months shy of the 15-year statute of limitation for murder. But under the Criminal Procedure Law, the statute of limitations freezes the day a suspect flees overseas, leaving more than 10 years in this case.
So now what do you have to say?
7:31 pm on October 12th, 2011 37
#36 Leon I already said what I said in #35. I’ll withhold any further comments until the trial to decide whether Patterson gets extradited, is completed. It’s strange that the US is holding these proceedings, when it’s clear that South Korea has put out a warrant for arrest so that the guy will be trialed in court. What kind of a BS would the US come up with, to prevent Patterson being extradited?
7:59 pm on October 12th, 2011 38
They’ve already had a trial on this case, no?
How does that work in the Korean system? Any of the lawyers in Korea reading this – can you respond?
Color me confused…
Ah:
I wonder if this Korean news expose mentioned that the US authorities investigating the crime – since the one suspect had left Korea and returned to the US – told the Korean prosecutors that they believed Patterson was the killer all along. That he had been in gangs and in trouble with the law in the US. (At least that is what I remember from having read on this case several years ago.)
I don’t remember this murder being as big as these latest news reports claim. Of course, it was taken up by the usual anti-US groups. It was also mentioned by my students at the time, but it did not get them excited like the 1993 or so Subway Brawl still did. I’ve only heard the Burger King Massacre mentioned as part of a list of supposed examples of how GIs get away with crimes in Korea and there is nothing Korea can do about it.
And like with every other example I’ve ever heard, once you check into it, you find it actually disproves what they claim.
This is what I call a brain-block thing. It doesn’t make sense. If you look at the case, USFK and other US authorities helped out with this case from the beginning, and the Korean system got multiple shots at putting the 1 or both of them in prison. But, to some Koreans, it is an example of how evil the SOFA is….
8:03 pm on October 12th, 2011 39
I see where the extradition treaty with SK did not kick in until 1999.
But, the articles linked above say both suspects were put on trial for some crimes. I should have also quoted the paragraph that says the victim’s family filed new (and I’m guessing different) charges, and apparently that is what they want him for now. I don’t believe it said what charges. If they dropped the murder charges earlier, they could still reopen it now if there is new evidence, I guess.
This isn’t unheard of in the US system, I believe…
8:08 pm on October 12th, 2011 40
“It’s strange that the US is holding these proceedings” — In an extradition case, it’s strange that extradition hearings will be held…(sigh)…
8:19 pm on October 12th, 2011 41
It’s been over 10 years since the crime went to trial, and both suspects, after serving some prison time, are free.
So they were tried, convicted, sentenced went to jail and were released by the highly vaulted and august Korean Justice System. What’s the bitch then? The US didn’t interfere. The Korean system apparently failed you. Not any SOFA’s or what have you.
Double Jeopardy is no issue in Korea, read on (from US embassy site):
Perhaps the most marked difference between our legal systems is the possibility of double jeopardy in Korea. Having been found innocent of a crime is no protection against being tried again for the same offense. If the prosecutor feels the verdict is incorrect, he may appeal that verdict and retry an already-acquitted individual.
…or if they make a movie about you for political purposes…
…and that, my friends, explains one of the myriad reasons for a SOFA.
8:49 pm on October 12th, 2011 42
#41 more nonsense from Leon LaPort and USINKOREA spreading false information.
Patterson was never tried for murder. He was charged and tried for concealing weapons and destroying evidence.
Even if double jeopardy is the case here (but which is not), if that’s the law in South Korea, then the Americans in Korea should also follow and obey it. It’s a poor excuse to hide behind SOFA. And that explains why Koreans are irritated and don’t trust the American SOFA.
9:01 pm on October 12th, 2011 43
Tom, I wish you’d read things more carefully.
8:05 pm on October 15th, 2011 44
The AD parent needs to be held accountable and the juvies involved need to spend time, lots and lots of time (say several hundred hours) sweeping the sun off the sidewalk and picking up dog crap and cigarette butts. The 2 that were 18+ need to be treated as the legal adults they are (though honestly, all involved need to be).
I’m not surprised by this in the least. It seems dependent behavior gets worse every year.