ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on November 7th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

How Much Does Tuition Cost At Korea’s Universities?

The article below in the Chosun Ilbo is critical about the recent taxpayers subsidized tuition cut at Seoul University, but what I found most interesting is how much tuition in Korea’s universities really costs:

The University of Seoul has decided to halve tuition fees starting next year and has asked the Seoul Metropolitan Government to make up an expected W18.2 billion shortfall (US$1=W1,133). The city government shoulders W64.8 billion of the university’s 2012 budget of W120 billion, but that would rise to W83 billion. Seoul Mayor Park Won-soon visited the university on Oct. 21, at the height of his election campaign, and signed an agreement with its student council over the plan.

As a result, around 8,000 students at the university will see their tuition, which averages W4.78 million a year, fall to W2.39 million. Yet fees were already half the average W8.27 million a year that other major private universities in the capital charge, and W1.5 million cheaper than at the state-run Seoul National University. Now they will be just a quarter of the fees private universities in the city charge.

Since many University of Seoul students receive a scholarship of W1.38 million, actual fees will fall to the W1 million level. That is even cheaper than in some high schools, which costs W1.8 million a year. The University of Seoul is popular among students and rated among the top 10 universities by private crammers. If such a school cuts its tuition so drastically, it will certainly attract gifted students and improve the quality of the student body.

But it also creates a problem of fairness. Among the students at the University of Seoul, 60 percent come from outside the capital. Some Seoul residents may already be less than happy to hear that around W60 billion of their tax money is being spent every year to support students from elsewhere so that they can pay only half what other colleges charge. How many Seoul citizens would support having to spend another W18 billion in taxes to halve the fees yet again?   [Chosun Ilbo]

With all the complaints about high tuition costs in Korea’s universities, they are getting a bargain compared to the universities in the US.  On the other hand though you do get what you pay for.

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  • someotherguy
    5:49 pm on November 7th, 2011 1

    There is a flip side to this argument. Almost all the previous governments have supported a “Seoul First” policy when it came to national development plans, this has resulted in nearly all the nations wealth and power being concentrated in a single city. It’s also resulted in half the country’s population living in the Seoul region. This has pretty much pissed off every single non-Seoul citizen in the country as other city’s are struggling to find money for their own development projects. I hear this all the time down here in Deagu, how the citizens are tired of all the country’s money being spent on Seoul and ignoring the other city’s.

    So in a way, this is Seoul paying for the education of the students in other city’s. Of course getting those students to go back to their home city’s and start business’s / develop the local area is going to be a difficult sell.

  • K
    10:36 pm on November 7th, 2011 2

    서울시립대 is indeed a very affordable university and the competition is enormous for students to get in there. In some ways the students who get through the competition do deserve the tuition fee cut at least for the effort and for their ability that helped them maintain it.

    And GI Korea,

    If the college enrolment rate of Korean high school graduates (80~%) begin equaling the college enrolment rate of US high school graduates (30~%) the per capita educational resources will also inversely proportionally increase. Korean universities are generally very well funded and well staffed, there are just too many students who want to study.

    I theorize again: if you maintain the current amount of eduational resources in Korean universities, and just drop the number of students who enroll in universities, you’ll see the quality of education per student in Korea increase very dramatically to a level comparable to other educational ‘superpowers’. You should take note that the R&D staff of almost every Korean innovation are already largely domestically educated, not foreign-educated. You do get what you pay for? Not in Korean universities. You do get much more than what you pay for.

  • BeerBelly
    12:28 am on November 8th, 2011 3

    @ K,

    Here is how the R&D staff at Korean corporations work.

    By a piece of new technology that has been developed in another country, bring it to Korea, and reverse engineer the technology. Then Label it with Samsung, LG or whatever.

  • BeerBelly
    12:29 am on November 8th, 2011 4

    Correction,

    I mean buy a new piece of technology.

  • someotherguy
    12:35 am on November 8th, 2011 5

    Korea’s pretty good at communications devices. Samsung is still the worlds best LCD developer / manufacturer. Most of the worlds memory and hard drives get made in South Korea.

    Their pretty big IT wise. Now whether it’s being developed by Koreans or not is a different story. It seems their really good at taking someone else’s invention and making a better version of it.

  • BeerBelly
    12:47 am on November 8th, 2011 6

    If you go to technology trade shows in the U.S. or Europe, you can always find a bunch of Koreans with note pads & digital cameras taking down information about new devices. Just look at the similarities of Samsungs’ tablet computers & smartphones to those of Apples’ & Nokias’.

    Additionally, look at their main battle tank, it is basically a smaller version of the U.S. M1 Abrams. I worked in Yongsan many years ago and the fire department there had a new fire truck being delivered. It got “held up” in customs for 5 months, and wouldn’t you know it, about a year later the Korea FDs started rolling out in new trucks that looked an awful lot like the one that was “held up” in Koran customs for five months.

  • K
    1:00 am on November 8th, 2011 7

    BeerBelly,

    Do you think, for example, Korea’s shipbuilding industry that dominates the world shipbuilding market as the No. 1 shipbuilder today is based on foreign technology? Why is Korea’s shipbuilding industry more than fifty times the US shipbuilding industry in size?

    And you are probably not aware of Korea’s next-generation main battle tank, the K2 Black Panther, the technology of which Korea was already able to export to a respectable foreign country (Turkey) without even being operational with the ROK Army yet. It has many core capabilities that is not implemented on even the latest M1A2SEP variant. Industrial espionage performed by Korean innovators is not as widespread or blantant as you try to paint it, and it’s not a unique characteristic of the Korean industry alone. Korean innovators are very capable of building their own technology that many countries around the world want to trade, and yes, that includes the United States.

  • Stephen
    3:33 am on November 8th, 2011 8

    Korea’s shipbuilding industry is No. 1 because big buyers like Shell send teams of inspectors on-site to ensure that the ships are built right.

    Japan and China are much less keen on allowing foreigners into their shipyards.

  • K
    7:52 am on November 8th, 2011 9

    Interesting. So that means the Korean shipbuilding industry uses copied foreign designs and technology?

  • Tom
    8:57 am on November 8th, 2011 10

    So these ESL teachers are experts at shipbuilding now too? My! They know about everything!

    As for iPad’s and iPhone’s, look around you, Samsung and LG aren’t the only ones using Android, square flat screen with touch pads. Motorola does it, Sony does it, HTC does it, every smart phone manufacturers does it. Why is only Koreans getting pointed out as copy cats?

  • Stephen
    9:27 am on November 8th, 2011 11

    K
    7:52 am on November 8th, 2011 9
    Interesting. So that means the Korean shipbuilding industry uses copied foreign designs and technology?

    Derivative rather than copied.

    The competitive advantage that Korea’s shipbuilding industry has over Japan and China is not in hard technology but the soft technology of submerging one’s ego, learning to get along with people, getting things done properly, and getting them done on time; especially when the customers pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a single LNG carrier.

  • Tom
    9:41 am on November 8th, 2011 12

    So then the question becomes why isn’t America building these LNG carriers? They can’t get along with other people?

  • Orbit
    12:59 pm on November 8th, 2011 13

    lol Stephen just go prepare your class for tomorrow.

  • John in CA
    2:23 pm on November 8th, 2011 14

    #8
    Lol, are you telling me a ship costing a hundred million to half a billion $$ can be built right just because presence of a few inspectors onsite?

  • John in CA
    2:34 pm on November 8th, 2011 15

    #6
    LOL

    Chairman of VW checking out Hyundai car. He’s not just taking pics and taking notes. Holy cow, he’s SITTING in a new Hyundai car in a trade show that’s even on sale yet!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpPNVSQmR5c

    The Korean MBT you call baby M1 is K1 MBT. Decades ago, SK govt was desperate for new MBT to replace aging MBTs (as in buying new/used). US govt (specifically Carter admin) was not really helpful so SK went to Germans. SK was just a signature away from acquiring used Leopards but finally US govt stepped in and stopped them. US got Chrysler to design one which were then built in SK.

    AND guess what, GM not only takes pics of Hyundai cars, they take them apart to study them. AFAIK, all companies/manufacturers study products from competitors.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303627104576413971267185128.html

  • John in CA
    2:34 pm on November 8th, 2011 16

    #15
    Correction:

    he’s SITTING in a new Hyundai car in a trade show that’s *NOT* even on sale yet!

  • guitard
    5:21 pm on November 8th, 2011 17

    John in CA wrote:

    Lol, are you telling me a ship costing a hundred million to half a billion $$ can be built right just because presence of a few inspectors onsite?

    I have a close American friend who makes a very nice living as a quality control inspector at a Korean shipyard working for a US company that contracts Daewoo Shipping to build ship parts. They pay him $10K/mth and cover all of his expenses (utilities, cell phone, gas, etc.), and provide him a nice apartment and new car.

    He told me 99% of his job is catching and stopping the Koreans trying to cut corners. He said it’s a never ending hassle.

  • Teadrinker
    5:42 pm on November 8th, 2011 18

    “With all the complaints about high tuition costs in Korea’s universities, they are getting a bargain compared to the universities in the US. On the other hand though you do get what you pay for.”

    Well, up to a point. Don’t forget that tuition at Canadian and British universities is only a fraction than what it is a many, if not most, American universities.

  • Teadrinker
    5:55 pm on November 8th, 2011 19

    #15,

    I like how he nonchalantly pulled out what looks like a Posipen (measures non magnetic coating on metal) at the beginning. Maybe the amount of paint could tell him if it’s a production model since I would imagine a car made just for these shows would have higher quality paint applied to it.

    #17,

    Beats being a teacher. My job is essentially the same, preventing people from cutting corners, and I get paid less.

  • someotherguy
    8:00 pm on November 8th, 2011 20

    @6,
    Most of the Korean Military’s technology is purchased from the USA. We sold them lots of things over the years, from their fighter jets to their troop carriers and even their tanks. The K1 is just a variant of the M1 without the DU armor or the C2 / C4I platform installed. And honestly those are the things that make the M1 as bad a$$ as it is.

  • K
    8:03 pm on November 8th, 2011 21

    The rest of the world shipbuilding industry must be grossly incompetent if simple work ethics is what’s making Korea the dominant No. 1.

    Is this also, perhaps, a copied technology?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIIBVJw-V8A

  • Maj.America
    8:20 pm on November 8th, 2011 22

    @21

    I don’t get the whole “Korean first in the world” mind set. You are not going to get anybody pass their common sense that Korea is a country where new ideas, and innovation is happening all the time. Its simply not the case. I can’t think of anything Korea has made or invented that the rest of the world gets any use from. What are you reaching for? Do you want people to say Koreans are the best ship builders in the world? Yes Korea is one of the largest industrial shipbuilding country in the world. So what? Are the ships the best of quality being produced ? Of course not. Have you seen the open source specification of American Naval ships? Have you seen the carnival cruise line of ships? Can the Korean government subsidized shipbuilding industry model of quantity really compete with the quality that other shipbuilding companies around the world put out? I doubt it. You guys are always reaching for something to justify your ridiculous levels of nationalism, and unfortunately all you do is reach.

  • K
    8:30 pm on November 8th, 2011 23

    “Most of the Korean Military’s technology is purchased from the USA.”

    This is a pure blanket statement spoken by a person who is suspected to be grossly unfamiliar with the defense industry of the Republic of Korea. In hardware, the US still does take the bulk of Korea’s some $1 billion weapons export from abroad. In technology cooperation with Korea however the US is only a secondary negotiating partner to Europe, Russia, and even Israel because of ITAR-related limitations of US technology and the US’s tendency to exploit them. Technology transfer between the US and Korea is actually comparatively limited compared to Korea’s own R&D of homegrown defense technology or technology transfer from other major defense industrial powers.

    “their fighter jets”

    Until now, that’s still true. The US historically had made the world’s best fighter jets whose capabilities were hardly paralleled by other countries… until recent years. With the commencement of the KFX program in full-fledged cooperation with Indonesia and Turkey, the third phase of F-X which may introduce F-15SE or F-35 to ROKAF will probably be the last time Korea will have to buy a fighter plane from abroad, and indeed, from the United States, if it attains the level of success the Korean government has envisioned.

    “to their troop carriers”

    K21 is not based on American technology. More than 100 K21 are already operational with the ROKA. K21 has already been sold to Indonesia to serve as the technological base for Indonesia’s next-generation Tarantula light amphibious tank.

    “and even their tanks.”

    K2 is not based on American technology. Korea already sold the technology of K2 to Turkey for Turkey’s next-generation Altay main battle tank several years ago.

    K9 is also not based on American technology. It was also sold to Turkey in a billion dollar deal many years ago for Turkey’s Firtina next-generation SPH. Even an American military personnel will not find it intellectually difficult to agree that In many ways it’s a lot superior America’s Paladin SPH.

    K55A1 is probably the closest capability match to the American Paladin. This SPH has been modernized independently by Samsung using Korean K9 technology with negligible cooperation from the United States.

    http://www.samsungthales.com/eng/product/product.asp?idx=9
    http://www.samsungtechwin.com/product/product_05_01_04.asp

    “The K1 is just a variant of the M1 without the DU armor or the C2 / C4I platform installed. And honestly those are the things that make the M1 as bad a$$ as it is.”

    You are not really aware of K1′s own unique capability advantages compared to M1, and the domestic upgrades to K1A1 and K1/K1A1 PIP and the remarkable technological level of K2, are you? Korean weapons should definitely be inferior to US weapons simply because they are made in Korea and yours are made in America, right?

  • K
    8:33 pm on November 8th, 2011 24

    correction and clarification…

    some $1 billion weapons export -> some $1 billion annual weapons import

    By hardware, I mean a completed end-product of weaponry. I may buy and use an Apple computer, but does that mean I also received Apple computer technology?

  • K
    8:44 pm on November 8th, 2011 25

    @Maj.America

    Basic facts.

    Korea is the world’s largest shipbuilding industry.

    Korea’s shipbuilding industry is not based on foreign technology, and in fact, the Korean shipbuilding industry transfers a lot of shipbuilding technology to Europe, Canada, and truly, even the United States. You are probably not even aware that Lockheed Martin suggested to HHI to jointly develop Aegis destroyers, combining LM’s mastery of naval electronic technology and HHI’s own fair amount of expertise in naval shipbuilding technology. All I’ve been hearing here is how Korean technology sucks your bawls and how it’s a copycat, and I’m actually trying to fix your, not my, mindset that Korea is nothing more than a second-tier technological power and a copycat. In reality, the Republic of Korea of the 21st century is committed to become one of the pioneering powers in many technological and industrial fields that had previously been dominated by western nations and Japan, and it is unvigilant to conclude that Korea will remain behind other advanced nations in technology forever just because Korea is Korea.

  • Orbit
    8:59 pm on November 8th, 2011 26

    major go do some pt instead of sitting in office all day bull shitting.

  • someotherguy
    9:13 pm on November 8th, 2011 27

    So we got some kimchierleaders on here… wow thought they avoided this site like the plague.

    At no other did time did I wish as badly for an ignore feature. Ohh well gonna treat K like Tom at this point in time, not even gonna read their posts.

  • K
    9:22 pm on November 8th, 2011 28

    You are unable to substantiate your claim that most of the Korean military’s technology – not hardware, a vast majority of which is also already produced domestically already – is purchased from the USA. I challenged you for purely academic facts.

    I have a lot of respect for America’s defense technology. All the American defense products that have ever been sold to Korea are of top-notch quality and capability. But their technologies have not necessarily been applied on Korean defense products of the same type because the US was not willing to transfer them. Korean defense products like K21, K2, and K9, whenever they are sold abroad, are also of similarly top-notch quality and capability compared to their American counterparts. Korean defense products just do not encompass as wide a range of capability requirements as American defense products do, yet.

  • K
    9:37 pm on November 8th, 2011 29

    Capability requirements that can be met by the Korean defense industry -> Korea can supply a complete system of advanced ground warfare equipment like IFVs, MBTs, SPHs, MLRS, and many other kinds of equipment. Korea can also export prop trainers and COIN aircraft, supersonic LIFT, light multirole fighters, and utility helicopter. Korea also has experience exporting corvettes, frigates, OPVs, LPDs, fleet tankers, mine warfare vessels, and soon, destroyers, submarines, and small aircraft carriers. Korea can’t build ALL the things that the US can, but it can build SOME. And when it does, they are of very good quality, and except for T-50, the content levels of US technology in the equipment are very negligible. This is because the use of US technology in a non-US product can be commercially detrimental to the product’s export potential. The US’s historical iron grip on the ITAR of US technology has persuaded many countries, including Korea, to avoid using US defense technology on their defense products as much as possible if there are other foreign or domestic alternative technology that are readily available or can be easily developed for the same need.

  • john in CA
    11:32 pm on November 8th, 2011 30

    #22
    Yes I don’t agree with ‘Koreans are best’ etc. It’s stupid. But you are not looking at facts.

    Check out this amusing clip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SVRTrrfKu8&

    Jump to 3:33-5:28, which is about Hyundai building the 2nd AEGIS ship for ROKN with AEGIS system bought from LockheedMartin. The senior executive of Hyundai explains how Lockheed insisted on using 20-30 year construction method which was build the hull, CUT out 20-30m holes in, insert 100+ AEGIS components weighing from a few hundred to 2000kg each, and patch up the holes. Hyundai wanted to build with a more modern method, which is inserting AEGIS components while the hull was built, eliminating cutting-out/patching-up holes. Hyundai spent 6 months trying to convince LM before LM finally agreed to try out the new method.

    Watch the reaction of the Hyundai executive as he describes what the 20-30 year old construction method means. He sighs heavily at 4:38, as if he can’t fxxxing believe that LM insists on sticking with the 20-30 year old method. His professional opinion is the 20-30 year construction method LM insists on is well, outdated.

  • K
    12:24 am on November 9th, 2011 31

    HHI’s expertise and industrial potential on Aegis ships have already been documented here:

    http://rokdrop.com/2009/07/21/lockheed-martin-south-korea-to-jointly-export-aegis-ships/

    And this?

    “I can’t think of anything Korea has made or invented that the rest of the world gets any use from.”

    This, I must say, is a significant display of ignorance largely motivated by the emotional desire to undermine Korea’s technological achievements to make it appear ‘inferior’ than it actually is. The US naval shipbuilding industry itself has a lot of use for Korean shipbuilding industry. Korea’s STX shipbuilding (which is Korea’s only fourth largest shipbuilder) is already building naval ships and transferring naval technologies for Canada and France, like the Mistral LPH, the most advanced LPH France has ever developed so far. Both Hyundai and Daewoo are also participating in RN’s MARS program in multi-billion tenders.

  • Teadrinker
    5:46 am on November 9th, 2011 32

    #31,

    Canada? Really…Most of the big projects in Canada are government projects. Irving Shipbuilding (at one time the largest shipbuilder in the world) is working on 32 ships for the Canadian Coastguard and Navy.

  • Teadrinker
    5:50 am on November 9th, 2011 33

    …and yes, I’m aware of STX Canada Marine.

    In any case, I take offense at your jingoistic BS. Ironic, considering you’re often accusing others of the same thing.

  • K
    6:17 am on November 9th, 2011 34

    The Korean branch of STX O&S will participate in that same national shipbuilding plan to rescue Canada’s currently sinking coast guard and navy.

    http://www.maritime-connector.com/NewsDetails/15082/lang/English/STX-Canada-Marine-wins-big-on–8-billion-NSPS-contract-awarded-in-B-C.wshtml

    There’s a definitive use for industrial expertise that Korea has in both naval and commercial shipbuilding in many foreign countries.

    And what BS, that Korea is not the substandard copycat that BeerBelly is trying to paint it as that flies like you just too happily swarm over to in no time? I’m trying to clean the mess out of your head.

  • Tom
    9:02 am on November 9th, 2011 35

    “I can’t think of anything Korea has made or invented that the rest of the world gets any use from.”

    This is the type of comments that I used to read and hear, up to about 7 or 8 years ago. Now those kinds of self serving comments based on prejudices and non-facts, have been decreasing in numbers and frequency over the last several years, but you still hear those arrogant attitudes towards Koreans, time to time.

    If there’s one character flaw in Americans are that they tend to put down other countries/people’s abilities because they think they’re the best. Of course, lately, that kind of jingoistic feelings have been on the wane, especially considering America’s power has declined and one in six Americans live below the poverty line. American quality? pffftttt… is there such a thing anymore?

  • Tom
    9:24 am on November 9th, 2011 36

    What “John in CA” at #30 is talking about (the youtube video he posted), starts at 4.00 minute.

    The Aegis ships that Korea built, took the American design and using Korea’s ship building industry experience and knowledge, improved on the American design, with significant breakthroughs.

    The same video also refers to those American engineers in 2005, even prior to meeting with the Korean navy, claimed that Korea was incapable of assembling the Aegis destroyer on its own. Not only Koreans proved them wrong and made them look silly, Koreans came up with new breakthroughs to improve the design and the technology.

    Americans keep making the same mistakes over and over again, they keep putting down and underestimating other people and other countries, then get burned later.

    Just wait twenty more years, we’ll see where America is and where Korea will be.

  • Orbit
    9:57 am on November 9th, 2011 37

    It’s funny how these LBHs say it’s bs yet they can’t prove why it’s bs.

  • John in CA
    5:37 pm on November 9th, 2011 38

    #37
    Dang, had to look up LBH.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=LBH

  • Teadrinker
    9:32 pm on November 9th, 2011 39

    K,

    You’re missing the point. You’re jingoistic, and all jingoism is BS.

  • K
    10:37 pm on November 9th, 2011 40

    I’m completely on my point.

    Korea is not the substandard copycat that you want to believe it is.

    At the very least, Korea is ahead of Canada in very numerous industrial and technological fields.

  • Teadrinker
    7:30 pm on November 17th, 2011 41

    #23,

    “Most of the Korean Military’s technology is purchased from the USA.”

    This is a pure blanket statement spoken by a person who is suspected to be grossly unfamiliar with the defense industry of the Republic of Korea.”

    http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=pol&arcid=0005562076&code=11121100&cp=nv1

    As I was saying…jingoistic BS.

    #40,

    “At the very least, Korea is ahead of Canada in very numerous industrial and technological fields.”

    Right, because nothing screams “high standards of living” like a smokestack.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country#Human_Development_Index_.28HDI.29

  • Homeboy
    7:45 pm on November 17th, 2011 42

    Maj. America, you are real sorry arse…

    I’ve seen you posts and you have completely no idea what South Korea is all about… you have this notion of America First. That’s what you got…

    Hell, what the f**k you say, South Korea in less than sixty years after the armistice of Korean War has come a long way in warp speed. You mentioned South Korea as Indiana sized nation. Yes Physically. That’s why your head needs to be examined. In this day and age of internet, technology, and free trade, the size of your country is not as much as important as what type of brain power you’ve got.

    And YOU Maj. America do not have a brain power. Quit posting.

  • K
    9:27 pm on November 17th, 2011 43

    TD,

    You should see this thread to understand that articles like that were intentionally sensationalized and distorted to help instigate anti-Americanism in Korea (though probably in a limited way) yet again.

    http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=pol&arcid=0005562076&code=11121100&cp=nv1

    You are already a very biased reader who think every article that says bad things about Korea are true without question, and believe them right away, and who think every article that says the good things are suspect and go to great lengths to disprove or at least discredit how Korea has done some good things. These preferences and activities have already been repeatedly demonstrated to be harbored and done with a serious lack in objectivity.

    Back to the ‘news’, the US already concluded two months ago that Tiger Eye WAS NOT disassembled by Korea and no US technology had been leaked, even though the rest of the article still attempt to implicitly project that US is ‘bullying’ Korea through misguided allegations.

    “Korea has a history of disassembling U.S.-made weapons in the 1980s and using what it learned to develop its own weapons. But since the 1990s this has supposedly not happened again.

    Korea and the U.S. conducted a weeklong joint investigation from Sept. 18 but failed to find proof that Korea had disassembled the Tiger Eye.

    The DAPA official said, “The U.S. tentatively concluded that the Korean Air Force had not illegally mishandled the equipment.”

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/11/01/2011110101121.html

    Can you even find a serious English article written by a serious reporter on the same kukinews subject? Of course, you can’t. The articles are meant for localized consumption. Why localized? They want to persuade people again that the relation between Korea and the US is bad, and only Koreans are likely to believe it for the same reason you repeatedly and readily want to believe (with a lot of fails) that Korea really sucks.

    Another newsflash for you, TD: Korea uses a lot less US defense technology in its defense products than Canada does in its own. Most things Canada can do in the defense sector are merely license-producing what are largely US-designed products and just stamping them with ‘Made In Canada’ which isn’t really better than ‘Made In Korea’. I’m also pretty sure Korea’s defense technology is more advanced than Canada’s and this has been achieved with much less reliance on US help.

    ”Right, because nothing screams “high standards of living” like a smokestack.”

    Of course. Canada has luckily been gifted with huge land, huge amount of natural resources, and few people. Canada doesn’t even have enemies on its border. Your people can work individually less but still earn as much or even more than Koreans. What a better place to live in?

    Addtionally, you should probably take an important note that Korea is still decades away from reaching the end point of its growth trajectory while Canada (and most of the developed world in general) has reached it long ago. years from now the gap between the prosperity level in Canada and Korea will be even less. In any case, better HDI doesn’t really indicate that Canada has superior technology or economic policies or something; there are a lot of environmental and non-economic social factors thrown in also in which Canada enjoys an inherently advantageous position, and Korea inherently disadvantageous position.

  • K
    9:28 pm on November 17th, 2011 44

    wrong quote; replace the kukinews link with this.

    http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/view.html?b_bbs_id=10040&pn=1&num=64315

  • Teadrinker
    10:44 pm on November 17th, 2011 45

    “You are already a very biased reader who think every article that says bad things about Korea are true without question”

    No, that’s not it. I was ridiculous your jingoism.

    “I’m also pretty sure Korea’s defense technology is more advanced than Canada’s and this has been achieved with much less reliance on US help.”

    US help? You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. I can name you a few things that are in every South Korean jet (American or homegrown) that is based on Canadian technology, but I won’t since that would be abasing myself to your level.

  • Teadrinker
    10:50 pm on November 17th, 2011 46

    “years from now the gap between the prosperity level in Canada and Korea will be even less.”

    I hope you’re right, but don’t forget that Canada will always have natural resources (gold, oil, diamonds, uranium, to name just a few of the things Canada is one of the top producers in the world) and that one day South Koreans will be stuck paying to rebuild North Korea.

  • K
    11:04 pm on November 17th, 2011 47

    “No, that’s not it. I was ridiculous your jingoism.”

    You are ridiculous at anything that has even a remote significance as an achievement for Korea.

    You accuse me of unprofessional jingoism but if you take a close and honest examination of my posting history, you’ll soon notice I don’t post anything that ‘boasts’ about Korea unless the westerners or the occasional Chinese here badmouth Korea first. See how this discussion about whether Korea’s technology is crap or not crap all flared up; someone tried to undermine Korea’s technological prowess, not because I wanted to exaggerate it. I do not detest the West as much as some Koreans do here. I have a lot of respect for the West and its achievements. Unfortunately, that respect does not seem to be mutually given. When have I ever even legitimately criticized Canada without you posting another obnoxious rambling about Korea first?

    “US help? You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. I can name you a few things that are in every South Korean jet (American or homegrown) that is based on Canadian technology, but I won’t since that would be abasing myself to your level.”

    South Korean defense industry is more advanced than Canada’s, and the tech transfer between the US and Korea is less visible than the highly active tech transfer between US and Canada. You just have no idea of Korea’s indigenous technological prowess and even contributions to the US’s own defense industry.

  • K
    11:14 pm on November 17th, 2011 48

    “I hope you’re right, but don’t forget that Canada will always have natural resources (gold, oil, diamonds, uranium, to name just a few of the things Canada is one of the top producers in the world) and that one day South Koreans will be stuck paying to rebuild North Korea.”

    So you accept yourself that Canada was more inherently naturally gifted to be a prosperous country. Canada is not necessarily more prosperous through its people who are more skilled or ingenious, work better or harder, at least when compared to Koreans who function equally well as highly skilled workers. Technological difference is not what led to the prosperity difference between Canada and Korea. Technologically Canada is in no legitimate position to say that technologies developed by Korea are substandard.

    On your second point, unification with NK will not purely be bad for even individual prosperity in a generational basis if handled competently and strategically, which Koreans are very good at. Demographic problems in particular can be immensely helped by additional land and comparatively young work force. There will also be less defense requirement that can divert work forces back toward more civilian work. But this is a discussion for some other time.

  • ChickenHead
    1:12 am on November 18th, 2011 49

    “I can name you a few things that are in every South Korean jet (American or homegrown) that is based on Canadian technology”

    You got us there.

    Jet engines certainly do have a loud whine.

  • K
    1:34 am on November 18th, 2011 50

    Teadrinker boasts about his country being a mere subsidiary of America’s P&W.

    Please, be original. Canada won’t have built the engines it did without American help.

  • Teadrinker
    3:57 am on November 18th, 2011 51

    #49,

    No, those are American…after all, they suck and blow.

  • Teadrinker
    4:00 am on November 18th, 2011 52

    #50,

    You obviously don’t know anything about aviation or aviation history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orenda

  • K
    4:16 am on November 18th, 2011 53

    * Orenda Engines General Electric J-79
    * Orenda Engines General Electric J-85-CAN-40
    * Orenda Engines General Electric J-85-CAN-15

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Canada#Products

    General Electric. Good game, Teadrinker. Your country is doing a great job license-producing American engines that suck and blow.

  • ChickenHead
    7:55 am on November 18th, 2011 54

    K,

    Don’t be so hard on Teadrinker.

    It turns out Canada DID lead the world in one aspect of aerospace engineering…

    …wooden jet engines.

    I shyt you not.

    http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/01/08/wooden-jet-mockups/

    I suppose one sits in a museum somewhere next to Mexico’s adobe submarine.

  • Chemlightbatteries
    1:13 pm on February 14th, 2012 55

    America is great, Korea doesn’t suck and Canada just shut the fook up! lol

  • Chemlightbatteries
    1:14 pm on February 14th, 2012 56

    I’m just joshin ya, Canada your okay kid! ;-)

 

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