By The Stars & Stripes has another article up regarding Koreans complaining about the SOFA:
Two high-profile South Korean rape cases involving U.S. troops as well as a fire in Itaewon last week linked to a U.S. soldier have renewed complaints about the status of forces agreement outlining legal procedures and protections for the U.S. military community. The agreement has generated such anger and political outcry in South Korea that officials from both countries met Wednesday in Seoul to discuss it.
Critics call the SOFA agreement a shield for U.S. soldiers dodging swift justice. Others believe it’s a valuable tool to protect the rights of U.S. citizens in foreign countries. [Stars & Stripes]
It’s a long article worth reading but here is the money quote in regards to what the SOFA complaints just like the US-ROK FTA complaints are really about:
“A soldier does not have the option to come to Korea or not. His option is to go AWOL or come to Korea,” said Sean Hayes, a U.S. attorney working in Seoul. He said demands to reform the SOFA are politically motivated, with leftist politicians hoping to drum up anti-Americanism before next year’s national elections.
I just wish the Stars & Stripes would ask the SOFA complainers to provide one example of USFK not handing over a soldier accused of an off duty crime to the Korean police when requested? The Stars & Stripes would do well to also ask them why the ROK Army doesn’t allow its soldiers to be tried in Korean civilian courts?
She hasn’t seen...
5:18 am on November 26th, 2011 1
Only far leftists raise hell about it. We see American soldiers as a semi-permanent fixture. We might as well get used to them.
GI Korea tried to refute leftists view by using statistics. It’s not going to work that way. Just keep your boys’ zippers closed and don’t make another problem before the election. Don’t play into NKorean hands.
The first one is in April next year. MB’s party will get ass beating on that election. Don’t know about the Prez election though. Pretty scary scenario for rightists.
8:17 am on November 26th, 2011 2
Park Geun Hye just can’t get a break.
10:04 am on November 26th, 2011 3
“Is Anti-Americanism the Real Reason For US-ROK SOFA Complaints?”
What if it is? Shouldn’t it be expected given what has occurred of late?
Start worrying when they demand that you leave…all of you, regardless of whether you’re in the USFK or not.
10:23 am on November 26th, 2011 4
#3: Errr… wouldn’t they start to hear a large sucking sound as a bunch of foreign direct investment money started disappearing?
11:01 am on November 26th, 2011 5
GI Korea, if you only knew………
11:35 am on November 26th, 2011 6
I remember anti-US Riots in the streets of Seoul as far back as the 1988. Usually college kids prior to doing their service as Riot Police back then.
Bunch of little cry babies that couldn’t think for themselves. I gave them as much respect as I did a young teenage American girl bitchin about not gettin what she wanted.
I think the best thing we could do for Korea is LEAVE. Like a bitchy little American girl, they would become confused and protest the US LEAVING. (untill their masters up north told them to shut up)
11:36 am on November 26th, 2011 7
I meant “STFU”.
12:50 pm on November 26th, 2011 8
As I outlined here, complaining about the SOFA is one of the primary tactics in the toolbox of the chinboistas, where there hope is to find that one issue or set of issues that will resonate with the wider population and lead somewhere… with the holy grail being the removal of the US military presence in South Korea.
Like water seeking a crack through which to flow through a rock, they will test each and every fissure to see if that’s the one that will bust through.
That said, the fact that the pro-Pyongyang far left is doing this, or that some non-chinboistas get riled up because of this tactic, does not absolve anyone of anything. It still remains that people are getting upset about a rape, traffic fatalities that were accidents waiting to happen, etc., etc.
12:57 pm on November 26th, 2011 9
Retired GI wrote:
Back in 1988 it was a bunch of crybabies? I could see that being said about the mid-1990s or most of the 2000s, but 1988? Do you know why they were protesting about back then?
Retired GI, you are one of the dupes the chinboistas are hoping for among Americans.
They want you to believe, as you apparently do, that they represent numbers far greater than their actual size. (Their tactic is like that of a cat that arches its back when it encounters a foe in order to look like it is larger than it actually is.)
You seem to also think that those who protest the US leaving would also be the same ones who would protest the US leaving, when in fact the latter group is not some hypocritical lot, but a group that has been fairly consistently pro-US partnership.
1:01 pm on November 26th, 2011 10
The US leaving South Korea would be a disaster not just for South Korea, but for all of Northeast Asia and the US, which would likely be dragged in by the ensuing conflict anyway.
Pax Americana has been good for the region and good for the US, an excellent investment in deterrence and stability with wonderful results.
Why give that up because some whiny pro-Pyongyang chinboistas dressed up as progressives are protesting?
4:00 pm on November 26th, 2011 11
Retired GI wrote:
Anti-US??
Anti-US sentiment in 1988 was still fairly minimal (especially when compared to more recent times). I think you’re under the impression that the often violent anti-Korean gov’t protests of that era were anti-US protests.
4:15 pm on November 26th, 2011 12
Guitard – can I ask how you learned your Korean?
5:33 pm on November 26th, 2011 13
#4,
Probably, which is why they are focusing on SOFA, not the presence of the USFK.
5:34 pm on November 26th, 2011 14
#8,
People are only biting on the SOFA issue, though. See number #4 and #13.
5:44 pm on November 26th, 2011 15
Yes is was minimal compared to more recent times. I didn’t say they were storming the gates.
I care not about the Numbers of anti-American in relation to the quite supporters of America. I never read much here about the quiet supporters of america in Korea. If that makes me a dupe, so be it.
I heard that mess for some of my idiot commanders. Like they would know. I tend to believe the Korean Nationals that I knew. They did not agree.
The protest in 88 > were mostly between the students and the Police, as I pointed out. They did not attack GI’s individually as they did in 2002.
If they were protesting their government, they were also protesting the group that supported that government — the Americans.
It always comes back to the Americans and I understand the reasons.
I would be delighted to watch them protest their Northern Master on CNN, after America Leaves. Let them have Korea.
6:25 pm on November 26th, 2011 16
Poop…Leaving South Korea is something will happen… THAT is when the U.S. is weak and Asia is all powerful with each nation having its own nuclear weapons. When the U.S. no longer has any influence over North Asia or any Asian region for that matter..
When Americans do not matter… they’d leave.
Then, Koreans would ask our tenants to leave quietly and expediently. We will not foot the bills. So, just go home nicely.
Thank you… so, keep your fingers crossed, that you would still have influence in so many years…
9:24 pm on November 26th, 2011 17
We left the Philippines when their greed overwhelmed them and it became non-productive to remain.
I await the same for Korea.
When we do leave, it is my hope that we will do just as we did with the Philippines. Take every thing we brought.
We will leave Korea when good faith can nolonger be found with the Korean government.
It is up to Korea.
Ask America to leave — PLEASE.
I’m quite sure the troops will not miss being away from their wives and children for a year in Korea. 
(You don’t foot the bill now. Why would you foot it later?)
10:22 pm on November 26th, 2011 18
I just wish Obama would say that “Dokdo belongs to Japan,” then we would be told to leave. Come on Obama, it’s real easy. All it takes is 4 words. Then, after all Americans return to their homeland Obama could say like Herman Cain “It was just a joke,” America doesn’t care who owns Dokdo.
3:08 am on November 27th, 2011 19
#17,
You left the Phillipines because it was of no strategic importance and therefore you couldn’t justify staying there any long. I don’t foresee the USFK leaving until China becomes fragmented, which could very well happen in our lifetimes.
6:08 am on November 27th, 2011 20
Another US ally, Pakistan tells US to leave
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-demands-us-vacate-suspected-drone-183904830.html
7:02 am on November 27th, 2011 21
#19 Nor is Korea of strategic importance. Korea is nothing more than a land-bridge on which a “ground war” can be fought. As it has been through out history.
The Philippines was of much greater strategic importance then Korea will ever be, as a land war is not required.
We are in Korea to protect Korea. If we decide that protection is not required or wanted, American interest in Korea would vanish.
America has zero need for boots on the ground in Korea.
Let North Korea obsorb South Korea. Let the left in SK embrace their kin.
I would enjoy watching the protest that would come later and how the North would deal with it, from my living room in Ameica on CNN.
Obama should close American bases in Korea. Save the money spent in Korea and pay down the debt.
South Korea would be just fine. Really it would.
10:44 am on November 27th, 2011 22
#21, Sorry but that’s why you are retired… nobody cares for your opininated rants… really… am sorry.. but I’d have to say butt out..^^
10:48 am on November 27th, 2011 23
World is precarious and we’re living in such a place… hope to the GOD that there is no more”world war” as we know… in the future…. and for the next millennium….
10:55 am on November 27th, 2011 24
Pinoys didn’t know what to do with themselves…. How could you compare them to Koreans… ya know… in 1960′s, Pinoys helped us build roads, plants, and all others things…. after 18 years of Marcos… they are just nothing.. exporters of women… that’s all…. they use guns without licenses(an American legacy)…murders going on without Police Control… PLEASE…YOU RETIRED GI… KOREA AIN’T LIKE WHAT YOU’VE SEEN…COME BACK AND SEE FOR YOURSELF… I AM RIGHTING THIS POSTS… BECAUSE I DON’T WANT ANY AMURRICANS TO THINK KOREANS ARE LIKE FOLKS PORTRAYED IN “MASH” WHICH MAKE OUT KOREANS TO BE A REALLY BACKWARD IDIOTS…. WHICH WE ARE NOT… WE ARE PROVIDING YOU WITH ULTRA MODERN TVs and other goods ^^ thak you… and bye
10:56 am on November 27th, 2011 25
God darned misspellings …. hate English…
10:58 am on November 27th, 2011 26
Hangul should replace all of the alphabets in the world…
11:23 am on November 27th, 2011 27
Actually, this book has an IPA-Hangul conversion that could replace all of the alphabets of the world.
http://www.amazon.com/Korean-Alphabet-1446-Sek-Kim-Cho/dp/159102000X
11:42 am on November 27th, 2011 28
#26 and #27
Then how would I be sure I won’t get lice when I order rice, or the coach of the girls hockey team won’t be misunderstood when he sends out a message saying, “I gave each of them a puck“?
6:26 pm on November 27th, 2011 29
@19,
Umm what?
The US had a very good sized based in PI, most notably the Air and Naval base for resupply. PI has an incredible strategic potential has a base of operations into the South East Asian theater. It’s out of immediate threat area yet still close enough to serve as a location for martialing your forces or redeploying a naval battle group. Should a large scale war ever happen in this region the closer Japanese air / naval bases would become targets for Chinese missile strikes. It would be prudent to have a backup location to martial and supply forces prior to entering the engagement area. Why do you think were building / expanding the base in AUS.
The US left PI because the PI government passed a law that said we have to go, they wanted to change the SOFA and change the EXACT clause the Korean’s are wanting to change. The US has a Status of Forces Agreement with every recognized government that we have military forces in. This is a document signed by the head of state for that country that says the US can maintain an armed military force within their borders and outlines how these forces will be treated. Without a SOFA the US military can’t stay without becoming invaders. And a stable agreement, one that is in EVERY SOFA we have, is the clause that the US reserves the right to deal judicial punishment on soldiers accused of violating host nation laws. The whole reason we’re not leaving troops in Iraq is because the elected Iraq government wanted to force solders to be tried in the Iraqi judicial system. So we’re packing up our bags and leaving right now.
The US will not maintain forces inside a country that those forces don’t have legal protection for. The consequences, not only to our country but also to the soldier are too grave. No legal protection means that a terrorist soldier can run at a US gate (and summarily be shot) while pretending to be carrying a weapon. The local Muslim cleric would then denounce the American Soldier as murdering an Iraqi citizen. The trial would be the US soldier walking into a mosque and being yelled at then summarily pronounced guilty, have his face put on TV, then publicly executed. There is no limit to the various scenarios and setups that can be created to imprison an American Soldier and use it as a political statement. Without that SOFA the leftists in SK would be attacking US Soldiers constantly and creating all sorts of mischief in order to have soldiers detained and tried / convicted (99% conviction rate remember).
This is just political statements being made for nationalistic reasons prior to a big election. All in the name of proving who’s more of a “pure blooded strong Korean MAN” then the next guy. If they really did want to change the SOFA they would have to be ready to kick the US Military completely out of the country, and that’s something their not gonna do anytime soon.
And yes RGI, there is most definitely a need for a ground base in the East Asian theater. We don’t need to maintain a ground force, but we do need to maintain a presence and a point for power projection. This is why that while most of the combat arms soldiers have been relocated, the support units are still here.
6:50 pm on November 27th, 2011 30
Guys,
The reason why Korea is of importance is that the Korean military is not capable of defending itself against the North. It is possible for North Korea to see the departure of U.S. troops as a signal that Korea.is no longer under the protection of the U.S. This would lead to the U.S. in another war, since of course the U.S. would come to the rescue.
SeanHayes@ipglegal.com
8:19 pm on November 27th, 2011 31
Homeboy said, “which make out koreans to be a really backward idiots—which we are not—”.
But in comments 22, 23, and 24 that is exactly what YOU sound like homeboy.
Are you guys just now getting to see “MASH”? Now THAT really IS backward.
MASH was set during the Korean war, 1950 > 1953. EVERYONE that is not “a backward idiot” KNOWS that. Except KOREANS it seems.
As for no one listening to me, it seems that YOU listen to me. Only a “backward idiot” would say that no one listens to the very person that HE is responding too.
8:24 pm on November 27th, 2011 32
Originally, US wasn’t in Korea to protect Korea, since Korea was dirt poor and not worth the investment. The real reasons were to keep China in check and keep communists away from lucrative Japan. However, as Korea developed their economy, it became more of situation to protect Korea.
8:34 pm on November 27th, 2011 33
#30 Sean, what you stated in #30 is common knowledge to most of us here EXCEPT the Koreans.
As for America having to help WHEN the DPRK marched across the 38th, well not if we were told to leave by the ROK.
The ROK military is perfectly capable of defending the ROK. It is their country. Let them defend it if they wish too.
I have faith that the Koreans can defend themselves. If they reject American forces and kick us out — GOOD! If they change their mind because they are not as capable as I or they thought — Damn! Sucks to be them. Not our business when we are told to leave. Korea is of no importance to America. We are there to protect. Korea presents no advantage to America. I will be happy when they tell us to leave. CNN will be much more entertaining when the North crosses the 38th into the South. It will be April 30th 1975 all over again.
9:16 pm on November 27th, 2011 34
#30, The US isn’t in SK to assist it in defeating the NK, we’re here to place a check on Chinese aggression. China is not a peaceful nation, their not an isolationist nation, and they definitely possess an expansionist mindset. They will become more and more aggressive and assertive if they sense the US presence and the desire for a US presence diminish in the region. Reality abhors a power vacuum. The moment the USA pulls out of the region China will rush to fill that vacuum. And between the two, the USA treats her allies much better then the Chinese do.
9:53 pm on November 27th, 2011 35
#34: Pakistan would disagree, but I can’t wait for China to inherit the joys of Pakistan as an ally against freedom fighters in Xinjiang.
9:55 pm on November 27th, 2011 36
#34: Read anything about what the Russians would do in the event of an American pullout from the region?
10:07 pm on November 27th, 2011 37
#32, you’re wrong. It was 1945, after defeating the Japanese, and it was to keep the Josef Stalin’s Soviets, not Chiang Kai-shek’s Chinese, out of Japan…
Don’t they have books in your town? Don’t you know any History of North-East Asia? Please try not to sound so much like Homeboy…
10:12 pm on November 27th, 2011 38
Kangaji,
WTH are you talking about?
Two major aggressive powers in the region are China and Russia. And while Russia has expressed a desire to return to its “former glory” they don’t currently have the economic capacity to actually do anything. China on the other hand has the manpower and the money to annex New South China (previously South Korea) and New East China (previously Japan) by military aggression.
10:21 pm on November 27th, 2011 39
Same old boring discussion… it’s really getting old…
Nixon, Carter, Warner, Bush, Rumsfeld… they all talked about the great alliance but pulled men out any way whenever need arised. That’s why the late President Park, Chung-Hee decided that S Korea would need nuclear weapons because foreigners could not be depended upon for S Korean security.
But when President Chun, Doo-Hwan took over he’d succumbed to the US pressure to abandon S Korean nuclear weapon development program and limitation on missile systems.
Chun Doo Hwan was the worst American puppy there ever was.
When you come to think of it, NK has every right to defend itself, so do South Koreans. I resent Americans dictating others what to do with their defense policies.
South Korea is building a nice base near Osan so go over there and stay quiet. We pay for your rent so all you have to do is keep your token force and be a good neighbor.
If not just go. Don’t make big fuss out of it. Once you leave, we will build nuclear missiles for our self defense. Whether you like it or not.
3:31 am on November 28th, 2011 40
“The US had a very good sized based in PI, most notably the Air and Naval base for resupply. PI has an incredible strategic potential has a base of operations into the South East Asian theater. It’s out of immediate threat area yet still close enough to serve as a location for martialing your forces or redeploying a naval battle group. Should a large scale war ever happen in this region the closer Japanese air / naval bases would become targets for Chinese missile strikes. It would be prudent to have a backup location to martial and supply forces prior to entering the engagement area. Why do you think were building / expanding the base in AUS.”
Maybe, but it seems unnecessary to me since you’ve got nuclear subs armed with nukes and aircraft carriers. And, I’m strongly convinced that China will become fragmented like the USSR. It’s only a matter of time until civil war erupts in China.
4:12 am on November 28th, 2011 41
[DELETED BY ADMIN - Lets quit with the personal attacks? Thanks.]
4:29 am on November 28th, 2011 42
[DELETED BY ADMIN - Lets quit with the personal attacks? Thanks.]
9:44 am on November 28th, 2011 43
Another reason for these bases overseas is to give military people jobs. Otherwise, they would be unemployed. It’s a form of government welfare.
1:55 pm on November 28th, 2011 44
# 43. Denny, how old are you?
Individuals are not born as “military people”. I worked in the printing business before joining. Going to college at the moment. Jobs are out there for qualified people and “military people” are qualified people. My Job in the Military was electronics repair. As soon as I retired I was offered a job in cali repairing aircraft communication equipment. I did not wish to live in cali so I went back to school.
While there are soldiers that have a problem with employment, it is usually because they live in the wrong area for the training they received in the military.
We are much like you Denny. Mommy and Daddy, high school, girlfriends and boyfriends. Oh and we are trained at our military job. Nurses, technicians, repair people, supply people, police, management and the list goes on.
Then add a few years of experience on top of the training.
Check the unemployment figures for prior Military and compair to civilian. I haven’t so let me know what you find.
Granted, there are those that use the system and don’t pull their weight. However, if you think it is “welfare”, feel free ot sign up for some of that FREE STUFF. Even the Slackers have to do physical training three days a week to stay on the cravy train. 0600 comes real early and there is no way around it.
I could go on and on, but anyone that would make that statement is either too young to understand or too Liberal. SIGN UP Denny! I doubt you make it through Basic training. Not everyone does. Get yourself some of that “welfare” — if you can.
4:16 pm on November 28th, 2011 45
“Going to college at the moment. ”
Congratulations!
“We are much like you Denny. Mommy and Daddy, high school, girlfriends and boyfriends. Oh and we are trained at our military job. Nurses, technicians, repair people, supply people, police, management and the list goes on.”
Yes, and some have university degrees,too (I did when I signed up). I had the opportunity to meet a small group of young USFK members recently, lieutenants and sergeants mostly. Most of them had done their masters.
“I doubt you make it through Basic training.”
5:49 pm on November 28th, 2011 46
#38: I’m not talking about them being a major threat to Japan or South Korea. I’m just wondering about how they would handle sea lanes and their borders in the Russian Far East.
6:00 pm on November 28th, 2011 47
#40,
And its obvious you have absolutely no military knowledge period.
Nukes are an option of LAST resort, you don’t just toss them around. Nukes also don’t win wars, troops with boots on the ground occupying another nation is what wins a war. Nukes just make it so the enemy is too terrified to do anything to stop you.
This isn’t command and conquer or starcraft where you toss computer generated pixels at each other. Real people bleed and die during a war and you don’t win those wars until you’ve obliterated the enemy. This seems to be the lesson people don’t get, you don’t win until there is nobody left standing to oppose you.
5:02 am on November 29th, 2011 48
#47,
Too young to remember the cold war, when the threat of nukes was often more than enough to make China think twice about flexing its muscles? (And to preempt your reply…No, the Korean War doesn’t really count since one of China’s reasons for participating was to purge the nationalists who were forced to participate (volunteer army my ass). Yes, they human wave tactic was mass murder.)
5:14 am on November 29th, 2011 49
…How else do you explain why the Chinese would send large numbers of soldiers into re-entrants knowing all too well that there were soldiers waiting for them at bottlenecks armed with .50 cal mgs and mortars, and continue to do so after hundreds, even thousands, were mowed down in the span of a few hours? They were supposed to die, that’s why.
7:10 am on November 29th, 2011 50
Someotherguy don’t mind him… He’s really full of it…
7:13 am on November 29th, 2011 51
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7:27 am on November 29th, 2011 52
#50,
Don’t know anything about salients and re-entrants? Figures.
9:04 am on November 29th, 2011 53
I should have you forced into the ROK Army and bitch slap you all day long 365 days a year. Better yet, get you into frontline division GOP in the DMZ and leave you right in the middle of minefield.
9:04 am on November 29th, 2011 54
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