By This is an online poll so the typical caveats of this not being scientific applies but it is interesting none the less:
More than 80 percent of Chinese Internet poll participants said that Korea was responsible for the Dec. 12 killing of a Korean coastguard by a Chinese skipper illegally fishing in Korean waters.
Popular Chinese portal qq.com launched an online survey Tuesday asking netizens who should primary be responsible for the incident, according to Yonhap News Agency of Korea.
As of Tuesday morning, 10,427 people, or 81 percent of participants, voted that the Korean Coast Guard was responsible, showing Chinese netizens’ sympathetic attitude toward their own fishermen.
Meanwhile, 2,447 people, or 19 percent, responded that the Chinese fishermen were responsible.
The Chinese believe that the South Korean coastguard used “excessive violence” that elicited a violent response from the fishermen involved. [Korea Times]
Oh and here is the attitude of the fishermen they are supporting:
“They were chasing me, so I obviously resisted. We are just ordinary fishermen trying to avoid paying some 300,000 yuan (5.5 million won). We don’t have intentions to hurt people,” said the fisherman, who lives in Shandong Province on the eastern coast of China facing the Korean peninsula.
So it is okay in China to violate another country’s fishing grounds and resist arrest simply because you are trying to earn a living?
To the Korean government’s credit they are demanding that Beijing apologize for the murder:
“The government is calling on the Chinese government to take measures that would be acceptable by our people to prevent such an incident from happening again,” ministry spokesman Cho Byung-jae said.
“We expect the Chinese government to express regret over the incident,” Cho said, adding the “acceptable” measures would include an official apology from Beijing. [Korea Times]
Good luck with that; I will be very surprised if the Chinese government apologizes for this murder.
She hasn’t seen...
4:32 am on December 14th, 2011 1
The Chinese netizens can say what they want, just like S. Korean netizens. They all have free speech aye. What we have here is grown men acting like children. Did America “demand” that the S. Korean government apologize for the Virginia Tech massacre?
4:47 am on December 14th, 2011 2
“The Chinese netizens can say what they want, just like S. Korean netizens. They all have free speech aye. What we have here is grown men acting like children. Did America “demand” that the S. Korean government apologize for the Virginia Tech massacre?”
There had been many Koreans who had shown deep regrets over the VT massacre. Officials of the Korean government too, including ‘anti-American’ President Roh, formally expressed to the families of the lost loved ones their condolences.
It should have been taken as basic formality here too that the Chinese government and its populace show their regrets and condolences over this incident without Korea having to ‘demand’ them to do that.
5:20 am on December 14th, 2011 3
Americans didn’t have to ask Korea to apologize. But Korea, its president, and many Koreans apologized anyway. There in lies the difference Tbone.
8:51 am on December 14th, 2011 4
Chinese do not have free speech.
11:03 am on December 14th, 2011 5
Neither does the US… And you thought Americans could say whatever they want because it’s guaranteed in your constitution?
11:05 am on December 14th, 2011 6
To others, Americans and Chinese are all alike… Pain in the ass but to some degree necessay…
12:06 pm on December 14th, 2011 7
“Americans didn’t have to ask Korea to apologize. But Korea, its president, and many Koreans apologized anyway. There in lies the difference Tbone.”
Americans didn’t and don’t need to apologize for the ACCIDENT in 2002.
Were you even in Korea in 2002 Tom? Probably not, but you’ll say you were regardless.
Koreans didn’t and don’t need to apologize for V Tech.
The only reason Koreans did is because they expected the average American to act the way the average Korean did in 2002. Guess what? It didn’t happen. For example Tom, there were no “No Koreans” signs hanging up in the windows of American businesses.
But you know Tom, there is a difference between a traffic accident, a premeditated murder and a death in a hit and run in which the visiting criminal runs back to his country.
1:34 pm on December 14th, 2011 8
The real difference is that (some) Americans in the K-blogosphere got annoyed or even angry that Koreans were apologizing for an incident they had nothing to do with.
At any rate, it was rather goofy for tbonetylr to bring that incident up in that way.
Denny wrote:
They do, insofar as they are free to produce all the speech they want as long as it doesn’t cover certain topics, and especially if it covers certain topics that Beijing wants them to cover.
1:41 pm on December 14th, 2011 9
Homeboy wrote:
Americans have a far, far wider range of speech, to the point of being virtually completely free for 99.999% of all intents and purposes.
In fact, just yesterday in a conservative forum, a person told me that he would love to meet Obama (whom he called a “half-breed”) and shoot him with (“let him feel the heat of”) a Civil War-era firearm, and if that doesn’t kill him, “let him feel the blade of my Bayonet!”
Try doing that in China. (I mean, saying it about the Chinese president, not with Obama.)
1:43 pm on December 14th, 2011 10
abitofscoff wrote:
An accident waiting to happen is not really an accident.
Perhaps those two men did not deserve to go on trial, but someone else’s head(s) needed to roll on that.
1:49 pm on December 14th, 2011 11
Yes, the OIC of the column.
4:18 pm on December 14th, 2011 12
#9
Actually, Americans are not free to say what that person said on that blog. Whoever said that should be expecting a visit from the Secret Service.
If the National Defense Act is passed with the amendment allowing Americans to be held by the military without trial on suspicion of associating with terrorists, there will probably be many fewer things Americans would be allowed to say.
On the subject of what Chinese can says on the net: We recently learned that many of the most significant hacking incidents of the past 10 years have come out of China, even though their government claims to have no knowledge of it. At the same time, we are told, the Chinese government has a tight reign on internet traffic into and out of China. What are we to believe?
4:27 pm on December 14th, 2011 13
#3: Maybe the SK Prez apologized; however, I lost count quickly of the number of Koreans here in Busan telling me how the VT killer “was not really Korea; he was really American.”
4:29 pm on December 14th, 2011 14
Typo in post #13: “Korea” should be “Korean”.
Addition: Chinese in the PRC have free speech?
4:43 pm on December 14th, 2011 15
JH, and I had Americans who told me Koreans are murdering savages who are killing Americans because Koreans eat dogs. So what does that prove?
In fact I had more Americans making fun of Koreans with Cho Seung Hui than I can count. It’s always brought up year after year as a subtle tactic to proove that Koreans are inferior. Face it, you guys are not as innocent as you try to portray yourselves to be.
4:46 pm on December 14th, 2011 16
Chinese don’t have access to twitter, youtube, or facebook.
4:59 pm on December 14th, 2011 17
Tom wrote:
In Canada?
5:03 pm on December 14th, 2011 18
Well, protests at the Chinese embassy are getting violent and, as it’s become a pattern when someone is having a dispute with China, someone has taken a few shots with an air gun at the windows of the Korean embassy in Beijing.
5:10 pm on December 14th, 2011 19
Well Kushibo, there are what we call the internet, emails, and live chat forums.
5:10 pm on December 14th, 2011 20
Just like this forum.
5:15 pm on December 14th, 2011 21
#3,
Funny that you would pop up now.
#15,
“JH, and I had Americans who told me Koreans are murdering savages who are killing Americans because Koreans eat dogs. So what does that prove?”
I doubt that’s true.
Besides, even some Korean Americans make fun of the stereotype about eating dog. It’s a means to disarm it.
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR6d67O6478
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHI6S25Ilek
“In fact I had more Americans making fun of Koreans with Cho Seung Hui than I can count.”
Sure, if you say so.
5:16 pm on December 14th, 2011 22
First link:
5:17 pm on December 14th, 2011 23
That’s weird, I didn’t embed the video.
5:46 pm on December 14th, 2011 24
Tom wrote:
Oh, goodie. Then you can cite some links.
I have no doubt that there were some Americans doing that. I’ve seen such stuff online, though here in Hawaii not really anyone. The haoles who are arseholes — arsehaoles! — know better than to say that unless blonds outnumber brunettes by at least 5 to 1.
But I wonder how many times it was sort of instigated by abrasive things you might have said. You’re not exactly all warm and cuddly when it comes to race, ethnicity, and nationality issues.
But I’d still have a beer with you. You see, I do like Chinese people.
5:51 pm on December 14th, 2011 25
Wow to #22. That’s pretty juvenile. I mean, if it were creative and brought something new to the table, it might be more palatable, but that was just warmed over leftovers.
6:40 pm on December 14th, 2011 26
# 3,
As if, I don’t think you know what an apology is, but I’m not surprised since the S. Korea NEVER accepts REAL apologies from Japan. A statement by the Cliff Jumper and praying for the victims doesn’t an apology make…”President Roo Moo-hyun ran a press conference solely on the issue, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement and a Korean college held a prayer session for the victims. It was as if all Koreans expressed collective apology to the victims across the Pacific.
If they had REALLY apologized they wouldn’t have been accepted on grounds of stupidity…
“South Korea’s Reaction to the Virginia Tech Massacre”
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?no=356853&rel_no=1
On the Cliff Jumper statement and prayers by Korean college students…”It’s doubtful whether the South Korean reaction will really help anyone.”
6:58 pm on December 14th, 2011 27
As I’ve said before, start sinking their fishing boats and deport the fishers back to China. If they refuse to exit the boat peacefully then sink it with them on it. Make it highly publicized that your doing this.
7:02 pm on December 14th, 2011 28
#22,
That was awesome, thanks
#23,
“That’s pretty juvenile. I mean, if it were creative and brought something new to the table, it might be more palatable, but that was just warmed over leftovers.”
Well then since Koreans usually laugh at all or even the slightest butt/poop reference in movies my students will probably enjoy watching it and certainly nobody will get hot/be offended since it’s only “warmed over” or because they’ve seen it before.
7:08 pm on December 14th, 2011 29
“Wow to #22. That’s pretty juvenile. ”
Yes Kushibo. Asians are a nothing but butt of jokes for American white people. The amount of disrespect shown in person and in their media is nothing new there. Life goes on. But that is why I would stand by my Chinese brothers than you white people who think they are better. Now only if the Chinese jjankkes will wash once in a while…
7:13 pm on December 14th, 2011 30
Define “from Japan.” When PM Murayama and PM Hosokawa made efforts to officially apologize, the right-wing parties fell over themselves trying to make certain everyone realized their apologies (which were, in my opinion, heart-felt and sincere) were their own and did not represent the government.
There have been statements of regret, typically followed by government or party officials qualifying them. Yes, this was bad, but…
To my recollection, no authority in Japan — PM or emperor — has never made an official apology that was accepted by the Japanese government without qualification.
Now if there has been one, it is still against a mountain of other mealy-mouthed expressions of regret that were followed by qualifying statements designed to enervate anything that might be construed as an apology. Go and read up on it.
And even if I were wrong, and there had been a few, until official Japan has made one sincere apology for each victim murdered or raped, then it still has no business asking, “when can we stop with all the regret?!”
As with its territorial disputes (to include China and Russia), Japan is holding itself back from being a truly good neighbor by beholding itself to a right wing that wants to believe it was an innocent victim and not a brutal aggressor during World War II.
7:16 pm on December 14th, 2011 31
Do ya think?
Sadly, though, many SoKos also do the same with foreigners, particularly Blacks but sometimes Whites. It doesn’t make it right, but it just shows that there are many racist and/or juvenile people around the world.
My duty is to point it out, as I did above.
Whoa, there it is. Tianjin Tom is using racial slurs against Chinese (just after complaining that “American white people” do this), in an effort to prove he’s not Chinese.
But they’re your brothers, right? Big brother, I guess, and we must not forget, eh, Tom?
7:18 pm on December 14th, 2011 32
tbonetylr wrote:
I’m starting to get a clearer picture why you have so many problems wherever you go in South Korea.
Nah, just kidding. I already had a very clear picture. 메롱
7:30 pm on December 14th, 2011 33
“But they’re your brothers, right? ”
They are my brothers because we share the same experience of racism by white people. I am proud of my Koguryo/Shilla Altaic North Asian Mongloid heritage which stands out from the South East Asian Sinic Chinese types of people. Furthermore, I’ve never seen any Korean shows make fun of Americans in similar mocking fashion as that show that was posted by the fat whitey Teadrinker who smell like sheep meat.
9:14 pm on December 14th, 2011 34
#25,
The sitcom is mostly improvised by the actors. You can’t get much more creative than that.
9:19 pm on December 14th, 2011 35
#29,
Get off it. The whole point of that episode is that Larry David’s character is racist. The “Asian” in the video is Bobby Lee, a very well respected comedian.
9:21 pm on December 14th, 2011 36
…or rather that he’s a bitter old man who lacks a clear understanding of social conventions (the main them of the show, as a matter of fact).
9:36 pm on December 14th, 2011 37
#34,
“The sitcom is mostly improvised by the actors. You can’t get much more creative than that.”
Never watched it before, but I’m now a “Curb Your Enthusiasm” fan. Maybe it will make my life easier with less problems.
11:20 pm on December 14th, 2011 38
Unless it were actually original.
I mean, my five-year-old nephew could rehash tired old jokes that have been on TV in some form for the past few decades, too.
I mean, seriously, it is like watching a rerun of some other program. At least think of something new and creative, like how a team of dyslexic Korean scientists at CERN have been working overtime to find the elusive “dog particle.” (Right, and I have the audacity to complain that someone else isn’t funny.)
I hear he’s very at both shucking and jiving.
11:21 pm on December 14th, 2011 39
#33, a little fuel for your fire. This lady wasn’t very bright.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/12/14/chick-fil-cashier-fired-ching-chong?hpt=hp_t2
http://cakeninjak.tumblr.com/tagged/tired-of-the-hate
12:00 am on December 15th, 2011 40
The Chinese MUST apologize with regretful tears and bow 100 times(or is it 1 million) ALL the way down to the floor or it will never be accepted an apology.
1:47 am on December 15th, 2011 41
#38,
A rerun of Seinfeld, maybe…But, that’s to be expected since Larry David, the guy with the glasses, created and wrote Seinfeld as a semi-biographical take on his life, just like Curb Your Enthusiasm is.
Speaking of Korean scientists…Here’s Bobby Lee as a North Korean scientist:
2:56 am on December 15th, 2011 42
#38,
“I mean, my five-year-old nephew could rehash tired old jokes that have been on TV in some form for the past few decades, too.”
Hogwash
Problems, you talkin about problems, you kiddin me, problems? It sounds like you sit around and hunt for them or at least those type of TV scenes. A show talks about Korean food(bulgogi) and you can’t do anything but complain
“Define from Japan”
How about the Japanese Government, is that good enough? Is one Prime Minister or government official more important than another? Who would you like most to apologize?
Background Information on Japan’s Official Response to the Comfort Women Issue
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/12/15/comfort-woman-statue-erected-outside-of-japanese-embassy-in-seoul/
3:07 am on December 15th, 2011 43
tbonetylr (#42), if the clip was just about bulgogi, I guess I must have been watching the wrong clip. What was the gag then?
As for apologies coming from the Japanese government, show me one. Not a statement of regret, and not a statement (like from Murayama or Hosokawa) where the LDP-controlled Diet fell over itself making sure it was clear that was not an official statement.
3:59 am on December 15th, 2011 44
First off, you deflected my main point and that’s that Tom thinks the Cliff Jumper, Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and the prayers by Korean students from a college were the same as an apology on the Virginia Tech massacre, so what up with that? And, you didn’t answer my question on who would suffice for you to make the apology
No matter what I show you, you’ll fall into one of these two following categories…”As of 2010, 24% of South Koreans still feel that Japan has never apologized for its colonial rule, while another 58% believe Japan has not apologized sufficiently” even though Japan has made apology statements for decades…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
Again, The Chinese as well as Japanese MUST apologize with regretful tears and bow 100 times(or is it 1 thousand) ALL the way down to the floor each time or it will never be accepted as an apology by Koreans, correct
4:33 am on December 15th, 2011 45
tbonetylr, that list deliberately sidesteps an entire side of the equation, namely that the LDP has, in its pandering to rightwing nationalists, successfully prevented the actual statements of apology from being considered as something other than individual statements by the person making them, and/or has negated the statements with qualifying remarks later on.
Are you familiar with Yasukuni/Yushukan and its “Japan had no choice but to go to war against America” message, or its claim that the annexation of Korea was legal and that it being forced to give up its territories was illegitimate? Not to mention its glorification through wrongful enshrinement of the architects of Japanese aggression?
All this is the equivalent of a wink or having your fingers crossed behind your back. There are some very good Japanese leaders — Murayama and Hosokawa made very sincere efforts but were thwarted by the ruling LDP, while Obuchi tried to work with Kim Daejung to move forward — but the ruling party for nearly all of the post-war period have taken Japan down a very different path from its former ally Germany. Koreans, Chinese, Australians, and even Taiwanese (on occasion) are rightfully ticked off at Japan. More Americans would be, too, if they paid attention more.
If you visit Tokyo, go to Yasukuni Shrine and pay the ¥800 to visit their museum and read all the displays. Read about how the Chinese gave Japan no choice but to go to war against them, and stuff like that. Then ask yourself what does his “regret” mean when someone like Koizumi insists on visiting this place.
4:46 am on December 15th, 2011 46
And for a person like yourself who is so filled with rage against a whole people for some perceived grievance from some time ago, it’s a bit odd that you are so critical of a bunch of women who were raped over and over and over again for not letting it go.
I’m really not sure what your point is, since I don’t read everything you or he writes (you’re both on different poles of the irrational loopy and illogical scale, so reading an exchange to you would probably make my eyes hurt).
Are you saying that Roh Moohyun’s apology wasn’t an apology or it wasn’t good enough or what? The general consensus back in 2007 seemed to be that he had no need to make it (some making that point with no small amount of derision).
At any rate, I don’t need to “deflect” a point you make with Tom.
5:07 am on December 15th, 2011 47
“The Chinese as well as Japanese MUST apologize with regretful tears and bow 100 times(or is it 1 thousand) ALL the way down to the floor each time or it will never be accepted as an apology by Koreans,”
Tbone, Chinese don’t have to apologize. But I do think that Americans need to take their fat white butts out of Korea and leave Asia alone altogether and stop meddling in none of your affairs. I mean being nosey in other people’s affairs got you those ugly Twin concrete Towers being destroyed. It no wonder everybody in the world hates you guys. It’s because you are arrogant and hateful. The problem here is not China. It’s the United States of White KKK America.
5:28 am on December 15th, 2011 48
Tom, what should the Republic of Korea do about the December 12 incident?
5:57 am on December 15th, 2011 49
Why are you making personal attacks against me? I don’t know you nor would I ever pretend to know you. I do know however, that if there was ever an “apologist” you’d qualify.
You say…”I’m really not sure what your point is…” but have been repeatedly responding to me posts. Somehow you must understand something aye?
My point is simple, I’m mocking S. Korea’s “demand” for an apology. How or why was that so hard for you to get, DUH
“At any rate, I don’t need to “deflect” a point you make with Tom.”
Really, but why did you respond to my point(#26) with Tom? You see, you speak from both sides of your mouth at the same time.
“…so reading an exchange to you would probably make my eyes hurt).”
Then why do you respond to me and why do you speak in the hypothetical as if you haven’t read what I write?
Maybe you sound like your speaking out of both side of your mouth because, as you say…”since I don’t read everything you write.”
“And for a person like yourself…”
Mocking S. Korea’s “demand” for an apology doesn’t make one full of rage. You sound a bit full of it though.
You know nothing about me or my so-called “rage for some time”
6:02 am on December 15th, 2011 50
I’m an apologist? Apologist for what? You are an apologist for people who are shi++ing all over a bunch of rape victims because you got hurt by somebody along time ago and you hold a grudge. That’s you holding a grudge against Brendon Carr and who knows who else. You’ve got a stick up your butt about Korea and you will defend whoever goes against Korea or whomever Koreans are against, no matter the merits or how loathsome the opponents are.
What do you have against the old grannies who were raped repeatedly?
It’s 3 a.m. and I’ve got biostats in 36 hours. Good night.
6:10 am on December 15th, 2011 51
# 47, Tom
“Chinese don’t have to apologize. But I do think that Americans need to take their fat white butts out of Korea and leave Asia alone altogether and stop meddling in none of your affairs.”
I agree that America should leave S. Korea, but Glans question is a good one. I have another one for you…If killing a Korean coast guard isn’t worth “demanding” an apology, how about this(pissing on the Korean flag)…?
http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=pol&arcid=0005653976&code=41111411&cp=nv1
Tom, if only you’d shown us your unhealthy pee while pissing on the American flag.
6:12 am on December 15th, 2011 52
Tom wrote:
Wrong again, Tom.
First, let’s underscore this for all to see: You can’t explain your justification for the Chinese action in the Yellow Sea nor for your belief that South Korea should embrace China despite crap like this. Yeah, no regular SoKo are you, that’s for damned sure.
Yeah, as I suspected, you would fail on this because your crafted persona is not genuine. This makes the idea that you’re doing agitprop for Beijing all the more plausible. Even more so when you attach it to things like…
Yup, there it is. The whole goal of your posts.
Really, Tom? Explain how that works.
Because off in western China the same folks would love to stir up some shyt with you guys. And the same folks go off and kill KoKos who venture too close. You’re as sick a fu¢k as someone who mocks old ladies who were raped.
Nope. Wrong again. Ask anyone in Asia who is not Chinese. They want to make some money off China, but China scares the crap out of them. That’s why Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Taiwan, now India, and even Vietnam are crowding around the US.
Yeah, there are some arrogant prigs in America. Too many. But non-agitprop people recognize the good stuff that comes from America and Americans, too.
Not so with the Chinese. I’ve had numerous conversations with my African neighbors who absolutely loathe the Chinese. They’re like viruses, they say. They come and take and offer nothing of value. Just suck things dry.
Nobody likes China. The food is nice and the people you get to know are kind and there’s some cool stuff to see, but the PRC is loathed around the world.
And now it’s time to go to bed.
6:14 am on December 15th, 2011 53
#50,
See, I told you that you were full of rage.
6:16 am on December 15th, 2011 54
Now, where is the proof of my rage?
6:49 am on December 15th, 2011 55
#46,
I really want to thank you from the bottom of my rage, irrational, and loopy heart self for responding to me even though you don’t read what I write, neither do you read what Tom writes so therefore it is a figment of my imagination that you responded to Tom at length in…# 52
You really don’t know life at all
speaking from both sides of your mouth.
10:24 am on December 15th, 2011 56
This is classic. Please, continue.
12:37 pm on December 15th, 2011 57
I think my sentence was a little unclear in #46. First, I don’t read everything from you and I don’t read everything from Tom. Tom has an agenda and you have a hurt-induced knee-jerk anti-Korean take on just about everything, and I don’t care to sift through all of that.
Given your respective propensities, I meant to write that reading an exchange between you two would probably make my eyes hurt. So I don’t follow everything between you two, so I wouldn’t know what point about Virginia Tech and “the Cliff Jumper” (classy, tbonetylr, I can see why you had so many friends in South Korea) you are saying he was making, much less deflect it.
As for your rage, it’s easy to see the pattern from what you write about and what you say at myriad sites such as The Marmot’s Hole, KoreaBeat, and here at ROK Drop. Somebody did something bad to you, at least as far as you perceive it, and people like Brendon Carr didn’t defend you and, at least as far as you perceive it, mocked you for it, and so you’re taking that out on an entire country. Over and over and over again. What’s up with that?
If you’re still in South Korea, what’s up with staying in a country full of people you loathe and who you think deserve bad shyt to happen to them and who you think are generally out to get you? If you’re not still in South Korea, what’s up with religiously following blogs on a group of people you hate so much?
Like I said in #50, you’ve got a stick up your butt about Korea and you will defend whomever goes against Korea or whomever you think Koreans are against, no matter the merits of the situation or how loathsome the opponents are.
In this case it’s taken you to new lows of mocking old grannies who were raped repeatedly when they were young. What’s up with that?
12:52 pm on December 15th, 2011 58
On the subject of apologies…
… this is a difficult subject to deal with, in part because some knee-jerk Korea bashers throw in whatever they can, irrespective of relevance or even accuracy.
What does Virginia Tech have to do with this at all? “The Cliff Jumper” (again, real classy choice of words) and his words of regret over the Virginia Tech massacre committed by a ROK national is parallel to the Chinese reaction over the fish pirate killing a Coast Guardsmen how?
South Korea doesn’t accept “REAL apologies” perhaps because the “REAL apologies” aren’t as credible as you think they are. See above about that. And who is “South Korea” in this case? The president? The government? A majority of the people? Or does any number of people protesting or griping about it later mean the entire nation doesn’t accept it? If you’re a knee-jerk Korea basher anything can mean all things.
Japan denying denying denying and then finally apologizing but refusing to provide direct compensation under cover of legalese is not a “REAL apology.” But since you are determined to side with whomever is against Korea or whomever you perceive the Koreans to be against, you will side against the old grannies who were raped repeatedly when they were young.
This post is about Chinese netizens blaming South Korea for Chinese fish pirates killing a South Korean Coast Guardsman. It’a also about Seoul demanding an apology. You jump in right away and seem to claim that because “S. Korea NEVER accepts REAL apologies,” Beijing shouldn’t apologize (?). Or maybe it’s that even if Beijing apologizes, it won’t be accepted.
Setting aside that you don’t know what a “REAL apology” is, I would submit that Beijing officials merely uttering those words is meaningless unless real action is taken by the PRC to prevent this kind of thing from happening. That is, like the Japanese “REAL apologies” that are followed by qualifications to the original statement and a refusal to take meaningful action on the apology, not a “REAL apology” and is largely meaningless.
1:01 pm on December 15th, 2011 59
And when it comes to all this, don’t get me started on Tom.
Tom already revealed his hand in #47: “Tbone, Chinese don’t have to apologize,” he says. After ducking requests for his take on how Seoul can embrace Beijing when Beijing repeatedly allows this stuff and acts as it does when it happens, that’s all he can come up with. Beijing doesn’t need to apologize to Seoul, and therefore Beijing doesn’t need to fix this problem.
Jiminy frickin’ Christmas, “Beijing doesn’t have to apologize” is what someone would say if they wanted to mock South Korea’s historic sadaejui obsequiousness toward China that still lingers in some form today.
You know who’s good at apologies? USFK. The 2002 “accident” was not really an “accident” in that it was an accident waiting to happen and given the way faulty equipment was used in the way it was used on the roadways it was used on and by the people who were in the state they were in, it was inevitable that civilians would eventually be seriously injured or killed. It was a predictable and preventable outcome, not a true “accident.”
That said, USFK apologized. Sure, the apology did not soothe the chinboistas, but it was accepted by many. But this is moreover because — and this is the difference between USFK’s true apology and the “REAL apologies” of Tokyo and Beijing — the USFK didn’t stop with saying they were sorry.
They made amends and then tried to make the changes they saw fit to prevent it from happening again. Don’t expect that to happen with China or Japan: In the former case it is because of hubris and a historical hegemony they see as their birthright, and in the latter case it is because of a right-wing that, just below the surface, holds onto the belief that the Pacific War was a just war where Japan is not responsible for any wrongdoing, certainly not any atrocity.
1:26 pm on December 15th, 2011 60
Tbone says China doesn’t need to apologize to Korea as he mocks Korea. Does that mean he’s Chinese too, Kushibo? Sounds like he’s Chinese, doesn’t he?
1:47 pm on December 15th, 2011 61
No, Tom. Because tbonetylr doesn’t show a consistent pattern of sneaking in policy objectives of the PRC in his writings.
And you were the one who said China doesn’t need to apologize to Korea. You and you alone.
Tbonetylr, on the other hand, suggested that Korea wouldn’t accept it if it happened. Quite a difference in what’s being said and why.
You’re the only Chinese agitprop here.
1:49 pm on December 15th, 2011 62
And since you’re up, you can get to work on telling us why South Korea should embrace China despite repeated incidents like this.
And also explain why “Chinese don’t have to apologize” over this incident. Try to do so without mentioning the United States, because this is between South Korea and China, which makes the US irrelevant to the situation.
9:03 pm on December 15th, 2011 63
L.A. Chinese Consulate shooting: Korean American Protester fires at security guard
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/12/chinese-consulate-shooting.html
9:10 pm on December 15th, 2011 64
Denny, I had openly speculated that the shooter might be an angry Korean American protester, but I don’t see where that was definitely established from your link.
9:19 pm on December 15th, 2011 65
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9:22 pm on December 15th, 2011 66
Orbit, please dispense with the racial epithets.
And on the off chance that the shooter in Los Angeles is an angry Korean protester, I wouldn’t be so smug. There are plenty of Koreans whose ears you can’t get any sense to as well, unfortunately.
10:46 pm on December 15th, 2011 67
I think Denny and Kushibo are trying to incite hatred against Koreans. Read the article and there’s no mention of the shooter being Koreans. They were demonstrating against human rights abuses in China. It doesn’t sound like anything to do with Korea at all. They arrested the man but have not named the charged. It sounds like Falun Gong, who have been demonstrating in front of Chinese embassies around the country everyday. White Americans are desperate to cause a fight between Asians in America.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/shots-fired-at-chinese-consulate-building-in-los-angeles-no-injuries-reported/2011/12/15/gIQAkDN2wO_story.html
10:48 pm on December 15th, 2011 68
Just in, check it out but the shooter was a white guy. Who else? What a surprise.
So much for your theories, Denny and Kushibo.
10:54 pm on December 15th, 2011 69
Tom, I have no reason to incite violence against Korea, which unlike you, is my home and where I have a considerable amount of family.
And then you go and turn around and try to incite (according to your own logic) hatred toward Falun Gong.
Nope, that doesn’t sound like an official Beijing position at all. No, sirree Bob.
And, um, where do get that he was a White guy? I’d be happy to update my post and blame this all on Whitey, since Whites have been inciting racial violence in America for centuries.
But the problem is that prior reports have said the guy who turned himself in is a white-haired Asian man in his 50s or 60s.
Oh, maybe you saw “white-haired” and thought they meant “white and hairy.”
10:55 pm on December 15th, 2011 70
Or maybe you’re confusing this shooting with the Hollywood shooting a few days ago. That guy was White, but some claimed he was shouting “Allahu Akbar!” as he was shooting at people.
10:56 pm on December 15th, 2011 71
Well I’m sure it was a white guy. They do have a reputation of not being able to control their trigger fingers.
10:59 pm on December 15th, 2011 72
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11:04 pm on December 15th, 2011 73
OK, I know somebody will bring up mass murderer Cho again, I know. But how many white mass killers killed? Thousands, too many to count. Every year, whites go on a murder rampage killing and shooting. They are not racist but they’re also hateful and violent in nature.
11:08 pm on December 15th, 2011 74
Tom, take your b.s. somewhere else.
First, YOU are the one who has brought up Cho Seunghui. YOU are the one who has poisoned the well.
Second, you seem to be admitting in #71 that you simply made up what you said in #68. Again, take your b.s. somewhere else. If you want to speculate that it’s a White guy, fine. I could do that, too.
In fact, I think there’s a good chance it was Richard Gere.
Third, the racial slurs against Chinese to “prove” that you’re not Chinese is really lame and juvenile. Not to mention terrifically inconsistent with what you claim about Chinese (if no Chinese has been racist to you, why would you be racist against them?).
11:15 pm on December 15th, 2011 75
By the way, I got several hits to my blog from a Los Angeles-based Korean-language news entity that was repeatedly Googling for information on the Chinese consulate shooting, so I’m fairly certain they wondered the exact same thing I did.
11:20 pm on December 15th, 2011 76
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11:26 pm on December 15th, 2011 77
No, Tom, you LIED about what you said. You weren’t merely guessing; you actually claimed AS A FACT that “the shooter was a white guy.”
That is a lie, and you did so for the purpose of trolling.
It’s increasingly clear you do not know how to conduct yourself in a civil forum, but that’s why you’re here, isn’t it?
Get over yourself. I’m an American and I guessed, but the two have nothing to do with each other. If you had said, “I’ll bet it’s a White guy,” that would have been entirely different.
People here call you on your b.s. because it’s b.s. Your pro-Chinese agitprop is b.s.
Tbonetylr is White and I call him on his b.s., too.
11:29 pm on December 15th, 2011 78
Tom, again with a vicious lie. I have never called you a “Chinaman.” Never.
You are the one using the racial epithets, in an attempt to obfuscate and to troll.
GI Korea should kick you off again.
12:49 am on December 16th, 2011 79
#77,
“Tbonetylr is White”
See, I knew you didn’t know me. I have a mixture of 3 types of blood, but if your calling a Native American white then you won’t need any of these(25 sec. in reminds me of you)…
1:14 am on December 16th, 2011 80
Tbonetylr, are any of your “three types of blood” from Europe? If so, then, whatever else you might be, you’re White, too.
Obama is White. Alicia Keys is White. Maggie Q is White.
Anyway, I thought you referred to yourself as being White or part White before. If not, then I apologize for offending you by thinking you were White.
5:11 am on December 16th, 2011 81
I’ve never heard the word “jjanke” and I never saw it until Tom used it hear at the ROK Drop. I still don’t know what it means, just that it’s some kind of insult directed at the Chinese. I’ve never noticed anything unusual about Chinese hair – to me it looks about the same as Korean or Japanese hair.
But that leaves my question to Tom unanswered: What should the Republic of Korea do about the December 12 incident?
5:21 am on December 16th, 2011 82
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5:43 am on December 16th, 2011 83
I love this Tom guy!
Whites are consistantly racist? Different groups of “whites” formed the EU while Asians, with their thousands of years of civilization can’t do the same.
Explain that Tom.
The Viets after having a Chinese population for about a thousands years made boat people out of a good lot of them. Make excuses for that Tom.
On top of that a mostly “white” country that is supposedly so racist called America elected a half-bred (no disrepect intended) “black” person as it’s president. Compare and contrast that Tom.
Can you say similiar things about Korea, Japan, China etc… Tom?
The fact of the matter is Asians have been racist thousands of year longer than any Western country. In fact, even the Romans had non Westerners in positions of power and influence-the hated Jews included.
I was never taught in school or at home the Nazi ideology that a certain group of people had pure blood, can Koreans like you say the same Tom?
And Tom, please explain the plight of people in your countrywho
6:07 am on December 16th, 2011 84
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6:18 am on December 16th, 2011 85
#22
As a fan of “Curb Your Enthusiasm”, that episode is actually poking fun at racial stereotypes. The missing dog shows up at the end, he was not eaten!
6:19 am on December 16th, 2011 86
http://videozertvshows.com/watch-curb-your-enthusiasm-season-5-episode-9-the-korean-bookie.html
7:35 am on December 16th, 2011 87
“It’s only European gened people who stretch their eyes out and say “me Chinese””
Not only that, they make big, fat lips and say, “Gimme yo’ ends, m’funker, ‘for I be bustin’ a cap in yo’ cracka azz.”
Those wacky white people.
9:17 am on December 16th, 2011 88
#81 “I’ve never noticed anything unusual about Chinese hair – to me it looks about the same as Korean or Japanese hair.”
For those you can’t tell the difference, it’s “all Asians have the same hair” but believe you me, all those Asian engineering students you saw in your class with the just-got-out-of-bed-and-didn’t-have-time-to-shower hair in your morning classes…. Chinese.
Facetious post. Please don’t kill me for it.
11:20 am on December 16th, 2011 89
John in NY, have you ever spent much time near a 고시원? With some of those students — studying intensely for a test that is (perceived to be) a matter of life-and-death, daily hair washing (and sometimes regular bathing at all) becomes a time luxury they can’t afford.
Of course, this is by no means a uniquely Chinese or Korean 고시원 phenomenon. The uni neighborhoods of Honolulu seem to attract a lot of homeless, who hang out in the libraries, the nearby Starbucks, etc. It’s a fun game to guess whether someone is homeless or just an all-but-dissertation PhD student.
11:31 am on December 16th, 2011 90
Tom wrote:
I see Tom’s sudden rash at race-based trolling has been moderated out. What he wrote about Native Americans as a swipe at tbonetylr was completely out of line.
Tom came in making unfounded accusations of everyone else making unfounded race-based statements. He was trolling, plain and simple. It was almost, well, Mizaresque.
For my part, I would like to apologize to Richard Gere, for stating in #74 that he might have been the white-haired guy who was actually shooting up the Chinese consulate. I hope his career doesn’t take a nosedive as a result of my callous remarks.
11:40 am on December 16th, 2011 91
George wrote:
Without having seen the whole episode, I was fairly certain that canine-eating stereotypes (and perhaps others) were the sacred cows of the episode.
My gripe about it was that it was terribly unoriginal. In fact, I alluded to “Mr Kim’s coming… Hide the dog” being an “old joke” two years ago, when by then it was already a years-old tired cliché.
If one is going to poke fun at that stereotype (and I do myself), at least think of something new. “Forget Dorothy, surrender Toto!” is my latest (and possibly lamest) attempt. It deserves mocking, but geez, someone like Larry David you’d think would be a bit more creative than just to rehash something the same tired old version of something like that.
11:53 am on December 16th, 2011 92
I see that it’s alright to stereotype and make comments about Korean characteristics, but if I do the same to give them a little example of how they would feel, then all of a sudden, it’s not alright.
12:41 pm on December 16th, 2011 93
No, Tom. Nobody was making comments about Korean characteristics. No one.
You, on the other hand, were making race-based stereotypical condemnations or epithets against Whites, Native Americans, and, in an attempt to obscure your identity and your motives for being at ROK Drop, Chinese people.
You are a troll, here to stir up shyt, plain and simple.
1:05 pm on December 16th, 2011 94
I hope the Republic of Korea conducts a professional investigation of the December 12 incident and takes appropriate legal action.
2:34 pm on December 16th, 2011 95
What’s with you guys replacing i with y all the time? I thought it was just CH but you too Kushibo? It does have a higher aesthetic appeal though so I’m not complaining.
3:16 pm on December 16th, 2011 96
#95
The “i” to “y” is a way around the automatic censors.
That is why people have to misspell Speciallist, one of the most common ranks in the Army on a blog dedicated to the U.S. Army here in Korea. Without the second “l,” the middle of the word becomes a popular ED medication.
4:51 pm on December 16th, 2011 97
Bullshit test.
4:51 pm on December 16th, 2011 98
Hey, I got through.
5:07 pm on December 16th, 2011 99
Well, I tried with Ciallis and Speciallist, and it was blocked…
The Speciallist bought a bottle of Ciallis to make his Juicy love him more!
Well, let’s not tease the mods, or give the spammers too many bypasses…
6:09 pm on December 16th, 2011 100
Because the spam filter is a fickle lover, I am just in the habit of alternatively spelling all questionable words…
…besides, azz exudes modern cool, shyt rises to a new level of classy, funk puts a little rhythm in it, raaape is pleasingly slimy with a breathless and drawn-out a, and both cack and cawk sound hilarious when said out loud 4 or 5 times in a row.
6:20 pm on December 16th, 2011 101
ChickenHead wrote:
Exactly. “ChickenHead is actually Di¢kHead.
6:24 pm on December 16th, 2011 102
‘C’mon, Kushibo… ya know ya wanna see my pecker.
6:35 pm on December 16th, 2011 103
Dude, what for? Your pecker’s all over the Internet.
8:44 pm on December 16th, 2011 104
Eating dog meat is very popular in Switzerland… Just not as well stereotyped since, as Neutral in the NATO/Warsaw Pact Cold War, they were never a target of mockery…
9:03 pm on December 16th, 2011 105
I thought “chicken head” was a euphemism for a sex act? Kinda like a Clinton-Lewinsky meets Col. Sanders…???…
10:09 pm on December 16th, 2011 106
As I have mentioned numerous times, current South Korean President “MB” is really incapable when it comes to dealing with the North Koreans and Chinese. MB is just too weak-kneed when it comes to dealing with the Chinese. Also, many S. Koreans dislike such diplomatic submissiveness toward the Chinese Government. Including myself and many more South Koreans would like immediate usage of firearms in a “shoot first ask later policy” In future dealings with the Chinese fishermen.
12:47 am on December 17th, 2011 107
USinKorea is also a sex act…
…well it was for me, at least.
Kushibo… this is the picture you were looking for.
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/16000/rare-chicken–16109.jpg
Though this is even closer to the truth.
http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/554images/toucan_bill.jpg
7:22 am on December 17th, 2011 108
#80 Kushibo,
“Obama is White”
Huh, are you color blind? Why is it that so many African-Americans and “white” people believe otherwise is sitting in the White House and have made a pledge that “that man(black) will not serve another term? Is it like Koreans who believe only the good Korean-Americans and/or Kyopo’s are really Korean?
You should work in human resources, that way when anyone checks the “other” box and they end up being a poor/unproductive employee you could fire them for lying on their application.
7:49 am on December 17th, 2011 109
Happy Kalikimaka to thine most Apologist.
11:18 am on December 17th, 2011 110
tbonetylr wrote:
tbonetylr, please note that saying he is “White” is NOT the same as saying he is not Black. And similarly, saying you are “White” (if in fact you are at all of European descent) is not the same as denying your Native American heritage.
Are you taking issue with me not saying he is White AND Black at the same time, or are you subscribing to a view that you are whatever you look like to others?
If that’s your view, fine (in fact, I think it has some merit up to a point since racial/ethnic identification is culturally based and thus is easily affected by how others perceive and react to us as individuals), but don’t chide me for taking a widely accepted view that people are what their parents’ and grandparents’ genotype are, which would make Obama, despite his outwardly visible phenotype, White (and Black). Tiger Woods would also be White and Asian (and Native American), and not just Black.
See, tbonetylr, this is one one big reason why I skip over some of what you write for fear of making my eyes bleed: You make one point up above, and then to really send it home, you go and throw in something that’s related in your mind but not really related.
You may or may have a valid point about Obama not being White because he doesn’t look White, and how people should be referred to as whatever “color” they look to others. But the good/bad kyopo argument is not really that at all: They all look Korean and so whether or not to reject them has virtually nothing to do with appearance but everything to do with performance. But you threw it in anyway. [Please note that I'm not saying this line of discussion is not worth talking about anywhere; it is, but it is not really connected to where you threw it in, which makes me tend to give up halfway through following your angry pronouncements.]
But even with the good/bad kyopo topic you are wrong. Cho Seunghui, clearly a “bad kyopo” and one who hadn’t been in Korea since childhood, was considered Korean so much so that there were several official statements of regret and even apology for his actions by the president and others.
That, of course, was met with scorn or ridicule by at least a few. Which underscores that among Korea’s critics, it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. There’s no pleasing people who are trying to find something wrong in anything they look at.
If you were to alter your hypothesis a bit, I would wholeheartedly agree with you that Koreans will highlight and praise a good kyopo as being Korean, and they would be embarrassed and largely ignore a bad kyopo being Korean.
That is, unless kyopos were the press’s bogeyman/whipping boy of the day.
11:33 am on December 17th, 2011 111
tbonetylr wrote:
tbone… Can I call you Tbone? …
Tbone, me disagreeing with you about your knee-jerk Korea bashing does not make me an apologist; it just makes you wrong.
In fact, if you and I were to both make a list of things we don’t like or would like to change about Korea, my list would be longer than yours. As an added bonus, mine would also be more accurate (and wouldn’t start with “It’s full of Korean people.”).
Your accusation that I’m an apologist can only be correct if you ignore (as you apparently have) all the negative, critical, and bad stuff I write about Korea and/or Koreans. Why, on this thread alone, I linked to a post that was entirely speculation (labeled as such) that the “50s or 60s white-haired Asian man” who shot up the Chinese consulate in Los Angeles was, based on the timing with the tension over the Coast Guardsman’s murder, quite possibly Korean.
Now that doesn’t sound like an apologist, does it?
In fact, go through my blog roll of “world-famous posts” and you’ll see a number of things that are highly critical of Korean positions, mocking Korean nationalism, or poking fun at Korean sacred cows. Beyond those, I could make a list of the myriad posts in the 3000 or so I’ve written that were rather critical of Korean people or stuff, but the links would ensure it ends up hopelessly lodged in the spam filter.
But if you really want to take a look at the “apologist” label a bit more, let’s examine your position, mocking old grannies who were raped repeatedly for months or years. Up above, you have been an apologist for the very people who are shi++ing all over a bunch of rape victims simply because those sh++ers are against the Korean position. Uncritically and unquestioningly, but quite vociferously.
That’s an apologist for you.
3:53 am on December 20th, 2011 112
The Japanese coast guard has announced that it seized a Chinese fishing boat after chasing it seven hours. They said the boat was trying to collect corals near islands off the coast of Nagasaki. They arrested the captain. Yoko Wakatsuki has the scoop at CNN.