By Via a reader tip over at 3 Wise Monkeys they have a posting up that takes a new look at evidence they believe may be used to clear Private Andre Fisher of the crimes he was convicted of committing against a Korean taxi driver. For me the new look at the evidence by 3 Wise Monkeys is interesting, but hasn’t convinced me that Fisher was innocent of the crime and instead just brought up more questions. Here are some quick thoughts on the points that 3WM has brought up in their latest posting on this case:
- First of all the court documents show that the cab driver in regards to the assault that happened to him was lying. The CCTV footage shows that too little time passed for him to have been assaulted and the money stolen from him. So we know now for a fact that the cab driver, Fisher, and his family have all been untruthful in regards to this case. This seems like the one fact in this case that is indisputable.
- Next 3WM makes fair points that the police should have looked at more CCTV footage from around Itaewon to see if Fisher’s hoodie he was wearing matches what was on the CCTV footage that captured the crime happening. However, I can’t help but wonder why Fisher hasn’t made available a picture of the hoodie he was wearing? Fisher says that the hoodie in the CCTV footage was orange while he was wearing an orange and black hoodie. Well how much black was on this hoodie? If the hoodie was half black and orange it seems like this is something I would want people to see, unless of course it was a mostly all orange hoodie with just a little bit of black that is comparable to what was in the CCTV footage. So I am unconvinced in regards to the hoodie he was wearing not matching what was in the CCTV footage.
- Next is the fact he was detained with a bulldog clip in his pocket that the cab driver said he used for holding his cab fare money in. There seems to be some confusion possibly caused by possibly translation or differences in opinion on what color the clip was, red or pink. 3WM unfortunately wasn’t able to get a picture of the clip which would have really helped clear this up. Anyway Fisher claims that he had the clip on him because he used it to hold documents in from work. This statement rated high on my BS meter. In the military we do not use red and especially pink clips to hold documents. Here is an example of the type of clips you will see used by the military:
- If the 4th Chemical Company was using bulldog clips of various colors to hold documents that would be unusual for an Army unit and would also be something easy to confirm by asking the Company Commander. If the 4th Chemical Company Commander says they were in fact using clips of various colors then Fisher’s story becomes more believable. However, something else that caused my BS meter to rise was why did Fisher have the clip in his pocket if it was to hold work documents? Presumably he was at work in uniform so if he removed the clip from a document it should have went into his ACU pants pocket. Why did he bring it with him for a night out on the town in Itaewon?
So these are just some quick thoughts off the top of my head in regards to the new look at the evidence against Fisher by 3WM. Anyone else have any thoughts on this latest look at the evidence used to convict Fisher?
She hasn’t seen...
10:07 am on December 22nd, 2011 1
“First of all the court documents show that the cab driver in regards to the assault that happened to him was lying. The CCTV footage shows that too little time passed for him to have been assaulted and the money stolen from him”
if this is the case wouldn’t fischer be telling the truth?
10:25 am on December 22nd, 2011 2
#1,
Well, I’d like to know how it was captured. Typically, the systems in taxi cabs take a picture every 2 seconds. It’s not a continuous video.
10:37 am on December 22nd, 2011 3
All it proves is that Fisher is telling the truth in regards to assaulting the cab driver. He may be lying about the theft and it is pretty clear he is not being truthful about other aspects of the case such as the Joseph Johnson and Jarrod Jeffry characters. These guys still haven’t popped up to verify his version of events. Until they do I consider this parts of history to be BS. Plus much of the false information put out by the family about his Midnight Express like conditions were likely fed to them by him as well.
12:13 pm on December 22nd, 2011 4
I may be misreading something but I’m a bit confused. Why does the time it took for him to get out of the cab and strike the cabbie and take the money even matter if Andre says he wasn’t in the cab in the first place? If he was never in the cab, the only time lapse that matters is from when he leans into the cab and pulls back out.
Also, what argument is being made about the time it took for him to lean into the cab? That it was too short of a time for a crime to occur? Whatever the time lapse was, didn’t the CCTV find someone reaching into the cab’s front seat? Whether it took 1.5 seconds or 3 seconds, didn’t it capture someone leaning into the cab?
2:40 pm on December 22nd, 2011 5
I have no real idea if Andre robbed the taxi driver.
I do know that Andre, his family, and his supporters lied about so many aspects of the case that it is pretty easy to believe he robbed the taxi driver.
Further, there were many suggestions made about how to collect evidence, deal with the military, and deal with the Korean legal system. There was no interest in this information.
Truly innocent people grasp at any straw to prove their innocence. Guilty people ignore methods which could reveal the truth.
Further thoughts:
1. The clip story sounds like BS… and it is pretty easy to verify if it is not. There has been no effort made to do this by the defense.
2. I disagree that there was not enough time to hit the taxi driver and take his money. Taxi drivers frequently prepare their wad of cash to make change as they approach the destination. The possibility that the perps started to skip out on the fare and then, as an afterthought, one leaned in, popped the driver, and grabbed the money from his hands is just as plausible as any other suggestion.
3. There are lots of CCTV cameras in the area. While Andre had time to key cars off-post, he had no time to get someone to walk around the area, explain the situation, and collect video.
4. All defensive comments on Andre’s part have been murky. From the “no legal problems in the USA or Seoul” when he already had a criminal conviction in another Korean city… to “but my clothes were orange and black” without being clear on just how much black.
5. There has been a lot of complaining about procedures, a great deal of which has been exposed as lies, but there has been little clear discussion of why existing evidence is misleading and no solid explanations of alternative interpretations… except for the introduction of seemingly imaginary people.
6. Andre does not appear to possess the character necessary to sacrifice two years to cover for anyone else. If he did rob the taxi driver, he either did not know the other guy or, in maintaining his innocence, he never identified him… as the other guy would rat him out in a heartbeat. Assuming he is guilty, I would bet that other guy could be identified as one of Andre’s military friends or acquaintances.
7. The most interesting revelation here is…
“The taxi driver then goes on to state that the remaining funds had been taken by the unidentified accomplice, whom police have stated fled the scene upon PVT Fisher’s arrest and is “still at large.”
If I understand this correctly, when Andre was arrested, another guy ran away and wasn’t caught. If he was wearing a gray hoodie, things are looking ugly for Andre.
As of now, based on evidence presented, I suspect the truth is that Andre and a military buddy took the taxi, decided to stiff the driver, saw him get out his cash to make change, got out of the cab, leaned in and made a grab for it, popped the driver in the face when he resisted, and ran away… but not far enough.
This pretty much explains everything known so far in a reasonable way.
The only other question is how much Andre had to drink that night. While his sister claimed he doesn’t drink, nothing else she said was truthful so I don’t believe that either.
4:10 pm on December 22nd, 2011 6
Just to clarify on those bulldog clips, since AAFES took over the SSSC, multi-colored you name it is available. Clips included.
5:11 pm on December 22nd, 2011 7
TLDR, but last year when I was working supply for my unit at Yongsan, we got the NSN wrong on clips like that, and we ended up with a box of assorted bright colors, including pink. Our supply room always had a lot of clips, but they were never used for papers, mostly just for holding things to other things (ajushi rigged).
The SSSC on post mostly sold items that units didn’t need, so I’m guessing they probably stocked those clips also.
9:00 pm on December 22nd, 2011 8
@Teadrinker: Did you even read the story. The CCTV footage was NOT from the taxi. Hell just scan the story and you’ll see that. Isn’t this a series from 3WM? Meaning they will put out more.
@Chead: Did the lawyer have a job or what? Isn’t the reason the USFK recommends a lawyer so he can defend someone.
@Nobody, thank you for providing the information on clips.
9:08 pm on December 22nd, 2011 9
#8,
Well then, 3 seconds is still enough time. Some people run 35 meters in 3 seconds.
11:00 pm on December 22nd, 2011 10
What a weak stretch. Speaking of a stretch, I can stretch my nutsack over my knee; this proves definitively that Andre Fischer is innocent.
6:07 am on December 23rd, 2011 11
6:24 am on December 23rd, 2011 12
@6 – They may be available but who is using them? I have never been to a staff call or any other meeting where everyone was given hand outs with multi-colored clips. Occasionally you may see a multi-colored clip used because they ran out of the black colored ones. That is why I recommended contacting the unit commander and ask him/her if they are using multi-colored clips at 4th Chem. If they are then this adds creditability to Fisher’s story. I still haven’t seen an explanation of why he had the clip in the pocket of his civilian clothes if he used it while at work?
@4 – As far as the assault on the cab driver I have never been fully convinced on that and would not be surprised if the cab driver was trying to pile on to the crime that happened in order to get a bigger pay day. What would be useful if there was any photos of the cab drivers face taken by police after the crime happened. If a big 6 foot 5 guy punched him in the face it seems it would have left identifiable marks.
8:17 am on December 23rd, 2011 13
#12 if he gave him a full on shot sure. If he gave him a drunken slap, just to get the money away from him, maybe not, but both are still assault.
12:52 pm on December 23rd, 2011 14
One thing is for certain you cannot trust the taxi drivers. They do the same crap every night when the lure a drunk gi to the taxi give him a ride without meter then way over charge him,,,then take him to the police if they dont want to pay. Its the same thing over and over and the police takes the side of the taxi driver everytime. This tape plays over and over.
1:47 pm on December 24th, 2011 15
#14… never encountered that situation. Generally, we can’t get a taxi to pick us up after dark. They will pass us by and stop half a block up for the drunken Koreans.
I’d have to get one of my female friends that’s Korean-American to flag down a taxi then the Hubby and I would pile in…. and we weren’t drunk.
3:22 pm on December 24th, 2011 16
I still haven’t seen an explanation of why he had the clip in the pocket of his civilian clothes if he used it while at work?
@12: Better Living through Stolen Office Supplies?
While I don’t believe Andre Fisher is innocent, he could have easily taken a red/hot pink bulldog clip from his desk and stuck it in his uniform pocket. Then when stripping of his uniform and emptying out his pockets to go out for the evening, he put the red/hot pink bulldog clip in his civilian trousers. After that, he can head out for a fun filled evening of keying cars and punching out taxi drivers with his imaginary friends.
Not sure how the quote function works, or how you add a pic to your profile. Any help?
4:54 pm on December 24th, 2011 17
The situation with the clip is interesting and inconclusive.
However, the clip is much like a single tree in an unnoticed forest.
Let’s think about this logically.
What’s the chance of having a clip in his pocket?
What’s the chance of it being the same kind as the driver’s?
What’s the chance that they would be the same/similar color?
What’s the chance of wearing an orange hoodie?
Etc.
Individually, they are all possible. But together, the odds get increasingly high… like flipping a coin heads every time.
Now combine this with the family being a pack of liars and Andre having an established track record of shytbaggery and deceit…
… and the more I think about it, the more it seems foolish to even try to rationalize away a strong chain of circumstantial evidence with thinly possible explanations.
I sure would like to see the videos.
I am going to guess that they are not so clear… but, still, his hoodie doesn’t match the video only if viewed through Wishful Thinking Glasses.
6:42 pm on December 24th, 2011 18
I was the SOFA trial observer for this case. There’s a lot of discussion out there based on incorrect or incomplete information, so I think it’s important to establish some good facts. I will stick to the facts and won’t comment on anything I don’t have first-hand knowledge about. Anyone who watched the trial (which was open to the public) would know everything I’m about to write.
I sat next to Fisher during the trial, so I saw the video, the pictures of the money and the clip, and heard the testimony. So here it is, based on my notes, and to the best of my recollection.
The Video. The video was shown maybe half a dozen times during the trial. The angle of the video was from the rear, meaning it showed the back of the taxi. It showed a taxi pull up and stop on the street. One passenger got out, and then another passenger got out. One of the guys got back into the taxi (the front passenger seat), and then a few seconds later the guy jumped out of the front passenger seat and started running away. The other guy then ran as well. The taxi driver got out of the taxi but did not give chase.
That was pretty much it. The video clearly showed some type of incident occurring, consistent with the story the taxi driver told about the robbery. However, the video was not very clear, both passengers wore hoods, and you could not see their faces. Thus, no identification of the suspects was possible from the video.
The Money and the Clip. Pictures of the money and the clip found on Fisher after his arrest were shown at the trial on an overhead projector. If you look at the picture GI Korea posted above, the clip was of the style and size of the clip on the left. It was either pink or red – I really can’t remember which. Fisher testified that the clip was his and that he had it on him because he used it at work.
The Hoodie. At the trial session on 19 May 2011, Fisher testified that although he was wearing a hoodie that night, it did not match the color of the hoodie in the video. The judge then asked Fisher to bring the hoodie to the next trial session on 25 May 2011 for examination. At that session when the judge asked Fisher about the hoodie, Fisher responded that he didn’t bring it because he didn’t know where it was.
Hope that helps.
7:53 pm on December 25th, 2011 19
ROKDROP: you say 3WM didn’t get a picture of the clip but it says in the article: “The image included in the Prosecutor’s Record is a flat, grainy, black and white picture leaving no possible identifying characteristics.”
SOFA trial guy: do you speak Korean? Did you have access to documents? Did Fisher’s explanation about the hoodie make sense to you?
11:29 pm on December 25th, 2011 20
“I aint never been convicted of a crime in Seoul”. “I was wearing and orange and black hoodie”. “I just met this guy today, by the way that’s J-a-r-r-o-d J-e-f-f-r-y.” “I can’t find my hoodie, it disappeared from my room.”
11:40 pm on December 25th, 2011 21
Chickenhead #17, I think you hit the nail on the head. There are WAY too many coincidences plus the lies that Fisher & his family have told. What was Fisher using the clip for, to hold condoms? Give me a f’ing break. Come on Fisher, man up, do your time, & STFU!
11:46 pm on December 25th, 2011 22
SOFA observer, thanks for chiming in here and filling in the details that “Free Andre” advocacy sites neglected to mention. The fact that Andre couldn’t produce the hoodie that the trial requested is a HUGE red flag. The more details we find, the more this guy seems like he’s guilty. I mean really, this is the first site that will come to bat for a soldier who is a victim of a railroading but I think it’s rather telling that not a single person here leans towards Andre being innocent.
11:47 pm on December 25th, 2011 23
By the way, which one of you is Larrym?
11:47 pm on December 25th, 2011 24
Look on the bright side. He’s getting his Hard Knock Thug Life Street Cred in one of the easiest ways possible. When he’s back in the burbs with his homiez he’ll be the big man on block. He’ll have the biggest lowest pants out of all of them. Maybe a tear tattoo as well.
12:57 am on December 26th, 2011 25
#23
I’ve got a few ideas..
12:10 am on December 27th, 2011 26
John: the answers to your first two questions are no and no. I was surprised that Fisher did not bring the hoodie to court, given that he had a week to locate it, and that the basis of his defense was one of “mistaken identity.” Of course it’s possible that (according to 3WM) his roommate misplaced it, but one would think he would do everything possible to locate it.
12:31 am on December 27th, 2011 27
#26 or in today’s digital age that there might at least be a photograph floating around of him wearing it that he could use, or a stock photo on a shopping site where one could buy the hoodie.
1:49 am on January 3rd, 2012 28
[...] the Observer at the trial after 3WM posted this series of posts. On December 24, this individual posted a comment on ROK Drop under the pseudonym “I Was At The Trial.” ROK Drop is a respected news source on the [...]
2:21 am on January 5th, 2012 29
ROK Drop, is “I Was At The Trial” anywhere to be found? There are some questions about his comments here over at The Three Wise Monkeys. Would be helpful if he’d respond.
7:40 am on January 5th, 2012 30
I’m going to have to change my screenname. Too many Johns in this place.
5:12 pm on January 5th, 2012 31
Looks like the monkeys got caught monkeying around again.
According to the comments seems they can’t even tell where the police station was. They put on a map it was across the street from where Fisher was picked up. It seems it’s actually down the street.