ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on January 8th, 2012 at 6:30 am

ROK Drop Open Thread – January 8, 2012

Please leave any comments or anything you want to discuss in the comments section.  I hope everyone had a good weekend.

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  • Denny
    7:09 am on January 8th, 2012 1

    Papa John’s Rings Up Korean Customer As “Lady Chinky Eyes”

    http://gothamist.com/2012/01/07/papa_johns_rings_up_asian_customer.php

    It seems that some fast food cashiers still haven’t learned that it’s always a bad idea to put potentially racist “jokes” in their receipts. Minhee Cho tweeted her receipt from a Harlem Papa John’s last night, writing, “Hey @PapaJohns just FYI my name isn’t ‘lady chinky eyes.’” An assistant manager at the store told us that it was a joke-gone-wrong: “I didn’t think [the cashier] was trying to offend the lady in any type of way, but she did. It wasn’t meant to harm her in any way. But I apologize on behalf of my staff for that.”

    Ronald Johnson, a Papa Johns operating partner who runs five stores in Manhattan including the one where the incident took place, told us it was “really disappointing and outrageous.” He said the female cashier was a “16-year-old urban youth who listens to this nonsense all day on TV and radio”—he said the incident reflected a larger disconnect in modern youth culture. “It’s really really unfortunate, it’s a bad bad thing,” he said. “When I googled the phrase, all these songs came up. These kids bring their baggage into the store with them. I dont know if I should fire her.” Johnson said it’s normal practice for cashiers to identify customers with phrases like “lady with blue shirt” or “man with Yankees cap.”

  • LG DACOM Stinks, Royally
    7:25 am on January 8th, 2012 2

    The Yongsan Stn red-light district has been completely flattened. It’s gone.

  • Sonagi
    7:47 am on January 8th, 2012 3

    I wonder how understanding Ronald Johnson would be if a redneck youth brought his cultural baggage to work and identified a black customer using racist language.

  • Fanwarrior
    8:58 am on January 8th, 2012 4

    I’d say bring the lady in for a meet and great and have a pizza together and talk about why this kind of thing isn’t cool.
    It’s a photo op and a chance to build a little bridge.

  • Denny
    12:18 pm on January 8th, 2012 5

    Navy SEAL shoots himself while trying to impress girl, dies

    http://news.yahoo.com/navy-seal-accidentally-shot-himself-dies-053326929.html

    A Navy SEAL who shot himself while showing his firearm collection to a woman he met at a bar died on Saturday in San Diego, officials said.

    Petty Officer Third Class Gene Clayton, 22, of Poland, Ohio, was taken off life support at Scripps Memorial Hospital early on Saturday, a spokeswoman for the hospital said.

    “Apparently he was out for the evening and he had gone home with a young lady and was handling a firearm and accidentally shot himself in the head,” said Allen Sluss, a watch commander for the San Diego Police Department.

    “It was deemed accidental, it wasn’t an intentional act.”

    Police said the woman told Clayton to put the guns away and Clayton, as if to demonstrate they were safe, put a pistol to his head and pulled the trigger. Police said Clayton may have thought the gun was unloaded.

  • JFisher
    12:51 pm on January 8th, 2012 6

    The book that GI Korea recommended, “Seasons in the Kingdom”by
    Tim Norris is very good. If you were stationed in Korea in the 60′s or 70′s it will bring back great memories. I got mine from Amazon. Read a few including the Martin Limon series that is set in Korea and this one is every bit as good in my opinion. This one is not a “who done it” as Limons but goes deep into how Korea was for the GI etc. Those times were much different than today. Read the reviews on the Amazon site for more info on this book and the reviews. To me it is
    one of those “can’t put it down” books.

  • Teadrinker
    5:31 pm on January 8th, 2012 7

    #3,

    Maybe. There are two ways to handle this. One is to fire the employee to protect the company’s corporate image (which is somewhat callous if it’s just a kid), and the other is to try to find a more constructive solution to the problem, which I think Mr. Johnson is doing:

    “I bet I’ll talk to her and she wont know why this is offensive. She needs to know, and she will know. If I fire her, two years from now, she won’t even remember why she got fired. If I sit her down and talk to her, I can help her. You still need a certain decorum and level of professionalism [at minimum wage jobs], and that may help her more in the long run.”

    #5,

    Of all people who should know that when you handle firearms you always have to consider them loaded and dangerous.

  • Fanwarrior
    7:12 pm on January 8th, 2012 8

    I just noticed this.. is ROK aware that you have Marmot’s hole and Robert Koehler linked as two separate blogs but to the same site of course under Must Read K-Blogs?

  • MTB Rider
    8:03 pm on January 8th, 2012 9

    Important Safety Tip: The weapon is ALWAYS loaded! Until you open the slide and actually check, it’s LOADED!
    If you check, then turn away for even a moment, the weapon WILL magically load/reload itself! Check AGAIN!

    Brought to you by the Range Safety Officer.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    8:20 pm on January 8th, 2012 10

    @8 – The links are to two different sites. Robert has both the Marmot’s Hole and his own photo blog. I recommend checking out both.

  • JSKWH
    8:50 pm on January 8th, 2012 11

    If we are ever to get past our own ignorance and learned bigotry we will have to teach the younger generation acceptance and understanding. While a photo op is not always the best practice it and sometimes open up lines of communication. Sometimes a public apology is needed other times it isn’t. Unfortunately the child is a minor and any form a public apology would require her parents involvement.

  • maui
    8:55 pm on January 8th, 2012 12

    Anyone one here got audited yet for LQA?

    CHRA Far East Region issued a notification to the the commands that the Area CPAC will be conducting an audit of overseas benefits of ALL locally hired employees.

    Per a recent case decision, OPM has further defined the eligibility criteria for locally hired employees OCONUS. This case decision changes how DSSR was historically interpreted regionally and in Europe. S

    So CPAC has to audit all local hires to determine if overseas benefits were awarded erroneously in the past.

    NOTE: ONLY CPAC can make the determination, also it looks like their (CPAC) is doing in alphabetic order.
    :cry:

  • Teadrinker
    9:04 pm on January 8th, 2012 13

    #9,

    Exactly.

  • Lazy_Contractor
    9:35 pm on January 8th, 2012 14

    #5

    Dude, what do you expect from a guy from POLAND (see the text). ;)

  • kangaji
    9:48 pm on January 8th, 2012 15

    According to a cartoon on haebyeong.com written by a Korean Ministry of Defense JAG type lawyer, Doctors aren’t allowed to know the gender of babies who they perform ultra sound on. I just translated it for the lulz.

  • ChickenHead
    12:01 am on January 9th, 2012 16

    “Dude, what do you expect from a guy from POLAND”

    Mount one lance-armed cavalry charge against a mechanized German Wehrmacht infantry battalion and get jokes made about you for generations.

    He who is without sin should fire the first flintlock.

    …OK… maybe I shouldn’t buy in to 70 year-old Nazi propaganda… but it still makes a good story… and it isn’t exactly untrue.

  • tbonetylr
    12:51 am on January 9th, 2012 17

    Woman pays 100 thousand dollars to have S. Korean scientists clone her dog.
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/cloning-fido-is-it-playing-god-27805762.html

  • tbonetylr
    1:05 am on January 9th, 2012 18

    Ron Paul Hightlights in “Meet the Press” debate…
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/politicaltheatre/2012/01/ron-paul-highlights-in-meet-the-press-debate/

    The U.S.A. is in 130 countries and has 900 bases worldwide. Nation building, how stupid :roll:
    He says in summary…”entitlements are not rights, gay/womens rights etc…are not the best of terms…”

  • Glans
    5:55 am on January 9th, 2012 19

    A friend of Newt Gingrich, Sheldon Adelson, has donated five megabucks to run adds against Mitt Romney in South Carolina: it seems Mitt is a naughty capitalist. Check out the video for yourself; it’s at the “editor’s blog” of TalkingPointsMemo. Once there, you can also click on the previous post, where Josh Marshall tries to analyze the connection between Gingrich and Adelson.

  • Ole Tanker
    3:29 pm on January 9th, 2012 20

    #9 Lock the slide to the rear and check that the chamber is empty..check.” :cool:

    Is this how that works?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

    #12, I know a couple of folks I suspect should be audited. Will be interesting if they can buy (under the table) their way out of this. :cool: :cool:

  • Tbonetylr
    5:38 pm on January 9th, 2012 21

    Korean Basketball League Accused of Discrimination…
    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/sports/2012/01/136_102516.html

    “The KBL implemented the rule to balance the strength of the teams, believing that a monopoly on ethnic Koreans, who are often better than the Korean players, could give too much of an advantage to one club.”

    Why can’t Korea do anything right on race :?: Korean players think they get mistreated because they don’t earn as much as ethnic Koreans(even though they ain’t as good)…

    “While complaints concerning the regulation are not without merit, native Korean players feel they are treated worse, as they are usually offered smaller contracts.”

  • Tbonetylr
    5:49 pm on January 9th, 2012 22

    Pertaining to #21, why wouldn’t the guy want to be on or move to another team other than maybe his team is the best?

  • Kish
    8:15 pm on January 9th, 2012 23

    Have you seen the vitriol against American KIDS reaction to Kpop by fans of this genre?

    They had to shut down several of the kids accounts because of the hate. Unbelievable.

    http://www.allkpop.com/2012/01/popular-youtuber-the-fine-bros-releases-kids-react-video-on-k-pop

    The actual video can b viewed here unless it gets pulled again by the entertain agencies: http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/65598675.html

  • Glans
    5:48 am on January 10th, 2012 24

    This headline can’t be true. “America locked a children’s humanitarian worker in Gitmo for seven years.” It’s at ThinkProgress.

  • Denny
    2:07 pm on January 10th, 2012 25

    Court-martial begins in Marine killing of 24 Iraqis

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-marine-iraq-20120110,0,3673376.story

    U.S. combat involvement in Iraq is over, but the controversial events of one of the bloodiest mornings involving U.S. troops in that eight-year war are now the focus of a high-profile court-martial here.

    The day was Nov. 19, 2005, when Marines fatally shot 24 Iraqis in the village of Haditha in a failed search for insurgents who had just detonated a roadside bomb that killed one Marine and severely injured two others.

    An eight-man jury — made up entirely of combat veterans — is asked to decide whether a squad leader acted out of vengeance or was merely following orders and standard procedure when he led his Marines into nearby homes where, without asking questions, they began firing their M-16s and hurling grenades.

  • Ole Tanker
    3:52 pm on January 10th, 2012 26

    #25 SSG Wutrich is going to walk free, afterall he was just following the proud US military tradition started at Wounded Knee and the Philipine Insurrection.

    http://philippineamericanwar.webs.com/balangigamassacre1901.htm

    Common sense indicates the five “young men” at the Taxi stand were insurgents, you know they weren’t running because they were “well disciplined” insurgents.

    I think Wuttrich should get a high paying job with Blackwater, or whatever it’s called now. :cool:

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    6:43 am on January 11th, 2012 27

    Another Iranian scientist bites the dust…

    I wonder why the press in the US isn’t filled with stories about getting to the bottom of what is going on – congressional investigations about whether the CIA is involved – investigative reporting about how the US benefits from this and it “might be” a black ops initiative led by the US along with the Israelies – and talk of holding those responsible in the International Criminal Court?

    When I see one of these “Another Iranian scientist assassinated” stories on Google, I don’t see any headlines like that.

    Funny thing…

  • Thomas Lee
    8:18 am on January 11th, 2012 28

    #21 – Without access to the US Government’s evidence against him, we can’t know the full story. Like you, I do NOT trust our government, but let’s not assume that just because he said he worked with children, that’s what he really was there for. That may have just been a front to provide cover for his real activities.

  • Glans
    2:51 pm on January 11th, 2012 29

    USinKorea 27, someone else has started to wonder.
    “But it’s hardly farfetched to think that the U.S. is involved, one way or another. And if we are, it means we’re in the business of deliberately targeting Iranian civilians for death, with the goal of frightening their scientists and thus slowing down Iran’s nuclear program. There is, needless to say, a word that describes the act of killing civilians as a way of spreading fear and alarm. We all know what it is, don’t we?”
    That’s Kevin Drum at MotherJones.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    4:43 pm on January 11th, 2012 30

    29 – If I didn’t know any better, judging by the lack of media attention, I might conclude we have a Democrat in the White House…

  • Glans
    4:51 pm on January 11th, 2012 31

    USinKorea 30, there’s been plenty of discussion of Obama’s civil liberties violations and his inadequate response to the Great Recession. Plenty of comments about his drone strikes in Afghanistan and Pakistan, his bombing of Libya.

    Mostly silence on the campaign against Iranian nuclear scientists. Why, USinKorea? What’s the difference? Think now. Think outside the box. Who is inhibiting this discussion?

  • Sonagi
    7:02 pm on January 11th, 2012 32

    it means we’re in the business of deliberately targeting Iranian civilians for death, with the goal of frightening their scientists and thus slowing down Iran’s nuclear program. There is, needless to say, a word that describes the act of killing civilians as a way of spreading fear and alarm

    Kevin Drum is assuming two motives for the assassinations. The second one, the elimination of key scientists to hinder the development of Iran’s nuclear program is a likely and almost certainly intended outcome. As for the first motive, he murders may or may not scare off Iran’s nuclear scientists, but whether or not that is the intent is anyone’s guess. It’s not like an Iranian scientist can just quit his top secret job tomorrow and start turning resumes to university and private employers. Given the choice between risking assassination by going to work every day and risking imprisonment and torture by quitting my top secret job of national importance, I’d choose the former. Being dangled from a crane in front of a baying crowd wouldn’t be on my top ten preferred methods of execution.

    There is no universally accepted definition of terrorism, but most incorporate the words “violence,” “political,” and “coercion.” Assassination is definitely an act of violence, and Iranian nuclear scientists are clearly political targets, but the second motive involves no coercion. The choice of targets is purely tactical. The first motive does involve coercion, but it’s a motive that is open to dispute.

    If by “we,” Drum means the US, I’m surprised he thinks our intelligence operatives are skilled enough to pull off such dangerous work in a tightly controlled country. Only Israel is motivated and masterful enough to evade Iranian security forces and keep picking off nuclear scientists.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:23 pm on January 11th, 2012 33

    31 When I scan the Google headlines each day, I don’t remember seeing much print being devoted to the items you listed. I see them in headlines of blog posts on a couple of conservative websites I check out from time to time, but I don’t see the media harping negatively on “civil liberties violations, his inadequate response to the Great Recession, and his drone strikesand the war in Libya.”

    31 – On the assassinations themselves, I don’t think the US should be involved in them. There are other means we can try to pressure the Iranian government to give up its nukes – with an emphasis on try.

    However, I think Israel knocking off the scientists is an acceptable tactic – given the geography and stated goals of Iran.

  • Glans
    7:53 pm on January 11th, 2012 34

    Sonagi 32, I haven’t met any Iranian scientists, and I don’t think you have, either. My guess as to their motives is as good as yours. What if it’s national pride and national security? Maybe, hearing the statements of Israeli and American leaders, they think it’s more important than ever to stand up to foreign pressure.

    USinKorea, why do you object to Iran’s stated goals: energy production and medical isotopes? Or is it the end of the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem? Ahmadinejad has said Israel should be abolished, and its territory should be governed democratically, by all of its inhabitants. He cites the example of the Soviet Union, which was abolished without any war.

    I advocate abolishment of the DPRK. Does the Pyongyang government now have the right to assassinate me? Or just my nuclear scientists, someotherguy and ChickenHead?

  • ChickenHead
    8:33 pm on January 11th, 2012 35

    Hey! Don’t get me involved! I just write funny songs.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    9:06 pm on January 11th, 2012 36

    Yeah, Iran and North Korea – same-same with just any other nation on the globe you point to. Principles and all that…

    …As one very open-minded grad student I heard once would say, “Who are WE to say Juche doesn’t work….”

    I have no desire to go around on this in this manner.

  • Glans
    12:38 am on January 12th, 2012 37

    So who is killing the Iranian nuclear scientists? Not us, says Hillary. Who then? The Israelis? The Arabs? Regime opponents within Iran? MEK? Here’s some speculation by Josh Levs of CNN – and no evidence.

  • Denny
    1:33 pm on January 12th, 2012 38

    Footage emerges showing U.S. troops urinating on dead Afghan bodies

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085378/US-troops-urinating-dead-Afghan-bodies-video-used-Taliban-recruitment-tool.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Footage showing American soldiers urinating on dead Afghan bodies has sparked outrage across the world – with Afghanistan’s leaders labelling it as a ‘recruitment tool for the Taliban’.

    The ‘disgusting’ and ‘highly reprehensible’ 40-second clip shows four men in combat gear standing over the three corpses with their genitals exposed as they relieve themselves.

    The men can be heard joking ‘Have a great day, buddy’, ‘Golden like a shower’ and ‘Yeahhhh!’ as they groan with relief whilst urinating.

    It has sparked anger from Afghans, with top negotiator from President Hamid Karzai’s High Peace Council Arsala Rahmani, saying it will have a ‘very, very bad impact on peace efforts’.

    He added: ‘Looking at such action, the Taliban can easily recruit young people and tell them that their country has been attacked by Christians and Jews and they must defend it.’

    It is not clear if the corpses belong to civilians or insurgents engaged in combat, although the film does appear to have been shot in Afghanistan.

    The anonymous person who posted it included the caption: ‘Scout sniper team 4 with 3rd battalion 2nd marines out of camp lejeune peeing on dead talibans.’

  • Sonagi
    4:02 pm on January 12th, 2012 39

    I haven’t met any Iranian scientists, and I don’t think you have, either. My guess as to their motives is as good as yours. What if it’s national pride and national security? Maybe, hearing the statements of Israeli and American leaders, they think it’s more important than ever to stand up to foreign pressure.

    Glans #34, you appear to misunderstand the gist of my comment in #32. My point is not the motives of Iranian nuclear scientists but Kevin Drum’s speculative presumption of the intent of coercion by US and/or Israeli operatives. Drum states in the test I quoted that CIA or Mossad assassins are targeting the scientists in the hopes of scaring them into quitting. There is, of course, no evidence of this, so we fall back on logical reasoning. Iran’s record of repression against people perceived as government is a counterargument against Kevin’s supposition about the expectation of the killers that the murders will scare other scientists into quitting. The assassinations are murder. Whether or not they are acts of terrorism are a matter of pure speculation right now.

  • Sonagi
    4:04 pm on January 12th, 2012 40

    Iran’s record of repression against people perceived as government opponents

  • Sonagi
    4:10 pm on January 12th, 2012 41

    …As one very open-minded grad student I heard once would say, “Who are WE to say Juche doesn’t work….”

    Decades of handouts first from the Soviet Union and later from South Korea and UN aid agencies demonstrate that Juche doesn’t work unless one understands the meaning of the word “Juche” from a Bizarro World perspective.

  • Sonagi
    4:19 pm on January 12th, 2012 42

    Ahmadinejad has said Israel should be abolished, and its territory should be governed democratically, by all of its inhabitants.

    Democracy starts at home, Glans. I’ll believe Ahmadinejad genuinely respects democracy when Iran has free and fair elections. Ahmadine is like a drug cartel chief demanding that the police crack down on the mafia.

  • ChickenHead
    4:35 pm on January 12th, 2012 43

    The Taliban was pissed on and pissed off at the same time?

    Go, multi-tasking marines!

    Now, if they could just be shut down and shut up.

  • JFisher
    5:22 pm on January 12th, 2012 44

    Does anyone think that the Taliban can get anymore radical or
    whacky in their efforts to kill infidels because some Marines
    had a little fun? I guess the answer is a resounding YES. The
    leftest in the U.S. will be licking their chops on this one.
    May rival the Abu Grab (sp?) event where the prisoners were
    “tortured” in Iraq a few years ago. Let the bashing of America
    begin!

  • kangaji
    6:27 pm on January 12th, 2012 45

    Jfisher – it pisses me off because it hurts the counterinsurgency effort and all the themes and messages NATO forces put out. Also, it’s going to make the civilian administration and the generals under them have to put in more political risk management controls and possibly tighten the ROE. The politics involved create a strategic advantage for the Taliban and are a setback for US forces. Also, it’s unfair to everybody else who acted professionally and is trying to accomplish clear hold build in Helmand to let these guys just get away with this. Just think of all the ammunition this gives upper level leadership to make your deployment suck even more.

  • Ole Tanker
    7:22 pm on January 12th, 2012 46

    Four less Leathernecks to worry about cutting in the draw down, they are already as well as gone.
    Bet they’re pissed. :cool: WHO? Released that video??? :cool:

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    7:53 pm on January 12th, 2012 47

    41 Her point was that “we” have no right to define any nation. To each his own — it’s the hip thing of the open-minded crowd…

  • Glans
    8:07 pm on January 12th, 2012 48

    Sonagi, I was trying to understand the words of USinKorea 33: “I think Israel knocking off the scientists is an acceptable tactic – given the geography and stated goals of Iran.” But USinKorea 36 said, “I have no desire to go around on this in this manner.” So maybe you can explain. Which of Iran’s “stated goals” makes its citizens appropriate targets for assassination?

  • ChickenHead
    8:36 pm on January 12th, 2012 49

    Glans,

    Political targets get assassinated. Citizens get murdered.

    As the scientists are furthering Iranian political and military goals, by saying they were assassinated, are you implying they are valid targets in a quiet, but very real, ongoing war between Israel and Iran?

  • Glans
    9:11 pm on January 12th, 2012 50

    Chickenhead, I’m implying they’ve been killed, and I don’t know by whom. USinKorea, usually a careful thinker, introduced the “stated goals” of Iran into the discussion. I’d like to know which “stated goals” justify these killings.

  • JFisher
    9:11 pm on January 12th, 2012 51

    KANGAJI#45: You laid out a cogent comeback to my post. Unfortunately I think you are most likely correct. The USA is
    the most powerful, magnanimous, freest, richest, country on
    this planet. To be so concerned about how others choose to
    judge us, is incredulous. How we got to a point where we feel
    guilty for being so exceptional and are apologetic is very sad. To see the Sec of State today grovelling to the world on the TV over this matter made me feel like tossing my cookies. In my perfect world a simple “we do not condone what happened” No follow up questions will not be taken. PERIOD.

  • Glans
    9:34 pm on January 12th, 2012 52

    JFisher, please link to video of the Secretary of State groveling.

  • ChickenHead
    9:48 pm on January 12th, 2012 53

    To keep the insurgents at bay,
    it’s good to select the best way.
    Depending on peril,
    choose the blued or pink barrel,
    and until you’re empty, you spray.

  • JoeC
    12:28 am on January 13th, 2012 54

    #51

    A large part of any counterinsurgency effort has to be about winning hearts and minds. That means demonstarting to the population that we are much more morally superior to our opponents.

    They were having fun? What were they thinking? They weren’t. That was not only obscene, it was just plain dumb.

    It is said that about 70 percent of Afghanis are illiterate, but it is also said that a picture is worth a thousand words. What’s a video worth?

    The Marine Corps just decided to discontinue the use of the term “pysops” for the term MISO. Whatever they choose to call their task, this incident just made it significantly more difficult.

  • Glans
    4:19 am on January 13th, 2012 55

    Iran’s supreme leader blames CIA and Mossad for the deaths of its nuclear scientists. (Note that the supreme leader is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, not President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, so Ahmadinejad is not a dictator. He can be and has sometimes been overruled by Khamenei.) This CNN story doesn’t say if Khamenei supported his accusation with any evidence.

  • JFisher
    7:33 am on January 13th, 2012 56

    JoeC54: “Win the hearts and minds of the populace”. Afghanistan is a feudalistic society. Always will be. We are “peeing up a rope” (pun intended) thinking we can make a difference there.

    Glans#52: I read the news clips about this issue on ROKDrop. “The Afgans that got wind of the peeing incident were “horrified”. They chop off hands, stone to death women, their shirea(sp?) laws are archaic. What the Marines did was dumb and juvenile. Not amusing to me on any level. I was being
    sarcastic when I said in the #44 comments that the Marines were having a little fun. Thanks to anyone that responds to my
    comments. You often give me pause to rethink my positions or
    dig deeper into the issues of the subject.

  • JFisher
    8:26 am on January 13th, 2012 57

    Glans#52: I just saw the Sec of State comments made
    the other day about the peeing incident. She was not “groveling”. I was wrong use that word. She was not groveling.

  • Sonagi
    3:08 pm on January 13th, 2012 58

    So maybe you can explain. Which of Iran’s “stated goals” makes its citizens appropriate targets for assassination?

    I can’t because I don’t condone murder.

    so Ahmadinejad is not a dictator. He can be and has sometimes been overruled by Khamenei.

    Rather like a medieval pope overruling a French monarch.

  • Glans
    4:05 pm on January 13th, 2012 59

    I think we’ve reached consensus, Iran’s stated goals don’t justify killing its nuclear scientists.

    Sonagi, your analogy isn’t very good. The pope was the boss of the whole catholic church and of his own earthly realm around Rome. He was never the supreme leader of France and never had secular authority there. Khamenei isn’t the leader of all Islam, not even of all Shia Islam. He’s the supreme leader, spiritual and secular, of Iran. Ahmedinejad runs the government, subject to Khamenei’s oversight.

  • Sonagi
    4:34 pm on January 13th, 2012 60

    Whatever he is, he does not value democracy or civil liberties and neither does his boss of sorts, whose religion fuses church and state instead of separating it.

  • Glans
    4:41 pm on January 13th, 2012 61

    I didn’t say either if them is a nice guy. I think the Islamic Republic should be abolished, but that doesn’t give them the right to kill me. It doesn’t even give them the right to kill my nuclear scientists.

  • Glans
    11:26 pm on January 13th, 2012 62

    What do ROK droppers enjoy most of all? Asians performing European music.

  • kangaji
    4:02 am on January 14th, 2012 63

    #62: YU AH JJA DANSHING KWEEN~! ONREE SEH-BUHN-TEEN! OH YEAH!

  • Glans
    2:57 pm on January 14th, 2012 64

    So who on earth is killing the Iranians? Mark Perry offers this answer: Pakistani terrorists recruited by Israelis – and the Israelis pretend to be Americans! Our “strategic asset” makes us look like terrorists, even when we refuse to support terrorism. Perry’s story is at ForeignPolicy.

    By the way, Wikipedia says Perry is planning to publish a book, “MacArthur at War”, this year.

  • Sonagi
    5:58 pm on January 14th, 2012 65

    I dunno, Glans. Three successful hits with no significant collateral damage doesn’t sound like our guys, now does it? Well, one target did survive, so maybe the CIA contracted that hit.

  • Sonagi
    6:13 pm on January 14th, 2012 66

    Come to think of it, Mossad is pretty good at pretending to be other nationalities. How many countries’ fake passports were involved in the hit on that Hamas official in Dubai? Israel even has agents who talk Southern and fake German accents,. too. WARNING: clicking on the second video in the link may induce groaning.

  • JFisher
    7:51 pm on January 14th, 2012 67

    For anyone that was offended by the four Marines that peed on
    the dead Taliban guys, Rep Allen West (R-Fla), a former Army Lt
    Colonel has something for you to think about. Click on this:

    mail.google.com/mail/#inbox/134dea205fb5944f

  • kangaji
    8:36 pm on January 14th, 2012 68

    You mean this.

    Oh yeah, there’s definitely a double standard. Except for reporters/journalists/authors like Sebastian Junger, media personalities just don’t understand. I hope the political judgements that go into this don’t turn into BRADLEY MANNING getting a less sentence than these marines. Both should be punished but BRADLEY MANNING definitely did way more damage. General letter or reprimand and article 15 makes sense to me, but because they video taped the damn thing it’s going to get moved straight to a court martial. Hmmm but Bradley Manning embarassed state department which is Hillary Clinton, so hopefully they have the sense to put the guy in jail for life.

  • JFisher
    9:29 pm on January 14th, 2012 69

    JFisher#67 I screwed up listing that URL. Click on KANGAJI’s
    #68 posting: “You mean this”

    Thanks KANGAJI. I am still learning how to navigate on a computer. It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I am a
    demonstrable example. Miss the ol’ Remington typewriter.

  • Glans
    10:04 pm on January 14th, 2012 70

    Sonagi, according to Mark Perry’s Foreign Policy article, Israel uses Jundallah for its operations in Iran. Jundallah does other stuff like sending a suicide bomber to a mosque during a Shi’ite festival, killing twenty-five people and wounding many more. The US stays away from Jundallah, but the Israelis pretend to be us.

    Remember, we agree that Iran’s stated goals don’t justify killing its nuclear scientists; still less to we want to be implicated in the violent deaths of its worshippers.

  • Sonagi
    11:07 pm on January 14th, 2012 71

    Thank you for that clarification. Glans. I didn’t realize that a close ally could get away with pretending to be us while engaging in terrorism, but then again, isn’t this the same ally that -oops- attacked one of our naval vessels in the late 60s, killing dozens of sailors?

  • JoeC
    11:40 pm on January 14th, 2012 72

    #67, #68

    If the congressman (Col.) is saying unless someone has been in the military and been to war they don’t have a right to criticize the actions of those Marines, he’s wrong. All Americans have a right to and are justified in condemning that. Else, what next? No criticism for those soldiers involved in those thrill killings and collecting body part trophies?

    While he didn’t “recall any self-righteous indignation” when American corpses were desecrated, I recall hearing and reading a lot of criticism of those incidents.

    Anyway, do we really want to have our troops held to standards in comparison to those of Al Qaeda and the Taliban? Unless we insist on holding to our own standards of conduct we will pretty soon find ourselves in a race to the bottom.

  • Glans
    5:46 pm on January 20th, 2012 73

    Iran educates its own nuclear scientists; it no longer needs to send them abroad. The nuclear program is widely supported, as a point of national pride, even among Iranians who don’t like the regime. Killing them doesn’t seem productive. Jeremy Bernstein, writing in NyBooks, concludes, “In short I am not sure what to do.” He doesn’t even mention Iran’s repeated statements that it doesn’t want a bomb.

  • ChickenHead
    7:28 pm on January 20th, 2012 74

    Glans,

    I realize you aren’t a professional diplomat so you can’t be expected to know that a nation’s stated goals don’t always reflect their real ones.

    Otto von Bismarck said it best… “Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.”

  • Glans
    7:57 pm on January 20th, 2012 75

    ChickenHead, maybe you can help me. Which of Iran’s stated goals justify killing its nuclear scientists?

  • ChickenHead
    9:06 pm on January 20th, 2012 76

    Your repeated focus on Iran’s “stated goals” as if they have any relevance to the situation is a clear indication that any real discussion with you is simply not possible.

    More meaningful debate can be found with the question, “Do any of Iran’s actions justify killing its nuclear scientists?”

    The Socratic method only works if you ask the right questions, Glans…

    …and you seldom do.

  • Glans
    9:34 pm on January 20th, 2012 77

    Do any of Iran’s actions justify killing its nuclear scientists? If so, which other countries nuclear scientists should be killed? Please include non-declared nuclear powers.

  • Glans
    9:53 pm on January 20th, 2012 78

    As you think about Iran, you might want to consider this:
    “The intelligence assessment Israeli officials will present later this week to [US JCS chairman GEN Martin] Dempsey indicates that Iran has not yet decided whether to make a nuclear bomb.
    The Israeli view is that while Iran continues to improve its nuclear capabilities, it has not yet decided whether to translate these capabilities into a nuclear weapon – or, more specifically, a nuclear warhead mounted atop a missile. Nor is it clear when Iran might make such a decision.”
    It’s in a report by Amos Harel and Reuters in Haaretz.

  • ChickenHead
    10:58 pm on January 20th, 2012 79

    “Do any of Iran’s actions justify killing its nuclear scientists?”

    Excellent question, Glans.

    I don’t have the answer.

    But I have more questions which you might be able to answer.

    Is there any benefit to American interests for Iran to have, or be in a position to quickly assemble, a nuclear weapon?

    Would a nuclear-capable Iran be a danger to America, American allies, or global stability through intimidation, action, proliferation, etc?

    Is Iran currently “at war” with other nations in a very low-scale conflict by trying to further its interests and counter the interests of other nations?

    Has Iran practiced or supported assassination and/or terrorism to further its interests?

    Is it morally acceptable to fight a war in the same way your enemy fights or must some “higher standard” be adhered to even if it results in failure?

    Are scientists working on Iran’s nuclear program striving for the betterment of mankind or are they willing soldiers in a scientific army assisting the success of a political/military/religious agenda?

    Can “questionable” covert actions that result in less destruction and less suffering than “acceptable” forms of open warfare be somehow morally wrong?

    Is Iran wrong to resist Western cultural imperialism and corporate exploitation?

    …these are off the top of my head. As your frequent postings indicate, this topic has been of interest to you… so I would hope you have some informed opinions.

    Kindly share them with us… as, if well-presented, they may influence the opinions of those of us who have not decided which propaganda to trust or where the layers of lies meet layers of truth in all the official narratives.

  • Glans
    2:31 am on January 21st, 2012 80

    Chickenhead, it’s hard to say if Iranian nuclear weapons would be helpful or harmful. They might make Iran more cautious. They wouldn’t scare Iran’s neighbors, any more than Soviet nuclear weapons scared the mujahedin in Afghanistan. Ours don’t scare the Taliban today.

    It’s possible, but unlikely, that Iran would give nukes to anyone else, because the actions of an uncontrollable third party would could then put the Iranian leaders lives and fortunes at risk. Pakistan may have proliferated components and designs, but not actual weapons. I don’t think the Iranian leaders are as reckless than the Pakistanis.

    Iran is not currently at war, though it supports groups which it thinks are engaged in just struggles. I don’t know of assassinations by Iran, or terror attacks by Iran, though groups it supports may do such things.

    War is all hell. It ought to be avoided. If it’s necessary, it ought to be won. Methods must be evaluated by many criteria; one of the most important is: will this method help us to achieve our goals?

    I can only guess about the motives of the Iranian scientists. Patriotism, religion, and professional ambition come to mind.

    Covert action, as far as I know, is usually counterproductive. Killing Iranian scientists just increases Iranian determination to develop nuclear energy.

    Iran is wrong to resist Western cultural imperialism. Our culture is the greatest thing that ever happened. All countries should adopt it. Of course, they shouldn’t be forced to adopt it. Iran is right to resist corporate exploitation. Everybody should resist that! Don’t vote for Mitt. Our Iranian friends need to resist their home-grown exploiters, too.

    Whoever is killing the Iranian scientists should stop it. I suspect it’s the Israelis in cooperation with other opponents of the Iranian regime, hiding their identity, making it look like we’re involved.

    I don’t think the Iranians are actually seeking a bomb. Maybe they are, maybe someday they will, but I don’t think they are now seeking a bomb. I don’t want to send murderers into Iran, and I don’t want open conflict with it.

    We should base our Iran policy on facts, on their actual deeds. If we object to what they say, we shouldn’t accuse them of saying things they don’t say.

  • Glans
    7:16 pm on January 21st, 2012 81

    Maybe the Iranian leaders have been reading my comments. They’re now adopting a more conciliatory tone. “Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps said on Saturday it considered the likely return of U.S. warships to the Gulf part of routine activity, backing away from previous warnings to Washington not to re-enter the area,” say Robin Pomeroy and Hashem Kalantari at Reuters.

    The Glans approach is the peaceful approach.

  • ChickenHead
    12:32 am on January 22nd, 2012 82

    Glans,

    I did not forget you.

    Your ideas seem reasonable.

    After some consideration, I may comment further.

  • Glans
    7:50 pm on January 25th, 2012 83

    The Institute for Science and International Security says Iran is unlikely to move toward building a nuclear weapon this year. Tabassum Zakaria and Mark Hosenball report for Reuters.

  • been there
    3:31 pm on February 2nd, 2012 84

    Is there any place on this earth where one can get some sleep and have some piece and quiet good quality of life in a small to medium town. I live here in las vegas NV which is about one of the most noisy congested little town I have every been in, it has five or so airport Nellis airbase, McCarran airport, North Las Vegas air port, Henderson airport and a helicopter port and I should not fail to mention cop copter flying around and drones flying around like they are in Afghanistan on a mission. Located pretty much within twenty thirty mile of each other accident waiting to happen. Can any one tell me who incharge of the United states of America. And I mean who is really in charge I mean the go to guy or what ever. I need a good place to move to Las Vegas bad ideal militery want move me again

  • Sonagi
    6:08 pm on February 2nd, 2012 85

    Iran is wrong to resist Western cultural imperialism. Our culture is the greatest thing that ever happened.

    A fair number of young Iranians of both sexes are voting with their feet by seeking ways to immigrate, including entering Western countries either illegally or with tourist or student visas in order to file asylum applications. I suspect it’s probably easier to hold a favorable view of Iran’s leadership if you’re not actually living under its thumb and if you’re not of the same sex as Iranian citizens forced to wear headscarves and long coats in the sweltering summer heat among a host of other indignities inflicted by those gallant resisters of Western cultural and economic imperialism.

  • Teadrinker
    9:01 pm on February 2nd, 2012 86

    #85,

    Iranians have been leaving the country for a long time.

    When I was a student, I knew someone whose family had defected from Iran in the 80′s. The Iranian government wanted her father, a scientist, to work on a project that he was morally and ethically opposed to. If the project was related to their nuclear weapons program (I never asked), I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve developed nuclear weapons by now.

  • Glans
    11:40 pm on February 2nd, 2012 87

    Barak has threatened Iran: he declared that time was running out for stopping Iran’s nuclear advance, as the country’s uranium facilities disappear into newly constructed mountain bunkers. He said, “Whoever says ‘later’ may find that later is too late.” Iran is making moves to begin enriching uranium inside a mountain near the city of Qom. Once that facility is complete, deterring Iran will be far more difficult. “The dividing line may pass where the Iranians decide to break out of the nonproliferation treaty and move toward a nuclear device or weapon, but at the place . . . that would make the physical strike impractical,” he admitted.

    Joel Greenberg, Joby Warrick, Craig Whitlock, and Karen DeYoung report for WashingtonPost.

  • JoeC
    12:38 am on February 3rd, 2012 88

    #87

    It would be interesting to see how you thoroughly take out operating nuclear enrichment facilities without releasing contamination throughout the region. When Israel took out the Iraqi reactor it apparently was still under construction and not yet processing any material.

    Japan’s nuclear facility incident was sort of fortunate in that most of the contamination was blown out to sea. I don’t think anyone can predict where fallout from Iran’s facilities would go over the period of time it’s in the air.

    Even with nuclear capability, Iran is nowhere near being an immediate threat to us. But if Israel feels that strongly about, that’s up to them. However, they should go in knowing that if high levels of fallout rains down on Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and or even Turkey, they’ve just opened up new cans of worms for themselves.

  • Glans
    1:29 am on February 3rd, 2012 89

    A reactor produces isotopes that have too many neutrons for their protons and are therefore highly radioactive. Enrichment doesn’t produce isotopes, it just changes the concentration of existing isotopes. These isotopes are much less radioactive than fission products. So bombing an enrichment plant is not as hazardous as bombing a reactor.

  • ChickenHead
    1:31 am on February 3rd, 2012 90

    Glans,

    I can’t argue too strongly against anything you wrote concerning Iran.

    I believe Iran has taken an honest look at what happened to countries which gave up their weapons of mass destruction (Iraq, Libya) compared to countries which developed them (North Korea, Israel)…

    …and has made the wise choice to develop nuclear weapons…

    …while claiming the opposite…

    …in hopes of keeping the international community distracted with debates over intentions and squabbles about appropriate reactions for as long as possible.

    So what is the reality?

    There is absolutely no benefit to global quality of life to have a nuclear-capable Iran… or even an Iran with any global influence.

    And there are a great many potential problems arising from a nuclear-capable Iran.

    With this in mind, a prudent reaction might be to do everything possible to stop or delay them based off a clear understanding of the cost/benefit curve involved and a detailed study of all possible outcomes for every action.

    I generally advocate sincere and straightforward diplomacy followed by crippling destruction through remorseless and politically incorrect total warfare… or not getting involved at all.

    At this time, it is hard to decide what to do without more information. Neither American politicians nor Iranians can be trusted as sources of information… and the media amplifies this problem.

    Therefore, an approximate understanding of the situation can only be arrived at through considering what various goals are and what possible actions can be taken to further them… and that might be easier than trying to filter all they nonsense in the media.

    So what to do?

    Doing nothing feels much like Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement after WWI. Half-hearted war tempered with various concerns of political correctness, and the constant coddling of global opinions as if other nations are too dumb to really see what is going on, has delivered what history will judge as expensive losses in both Afghanistan and Iraq. A full-blown, cruisemissiling, carpetbombing, bunkerbusting, dronestriking, RodFromGodding, devastating and continuous strike on Iran until they surrender unconditionally and decide to go the successful way of Japan and Germany, might be a bit more than anyone can chew right now… might… or it might be the best for the First Turning world of 2025.

    The only other current option is covert actions that have a great return on investment compared to open war… and, regardless of how it is spun, likely does have a number of widespread effects on the Iranian nuclear program.

    More importantly, it must all be looked at in the context of global events… which nobody is doing.

    As of now, there is a very low-scale world war going on… but the media ignores it, the politicians avoid discussing it, and the populations (of the many places not experiencing war) are too busy with American Idol and Jersey Shore to notice.

    In the end, right or wrong, covert actions will continue… and, at the right time, with the right pretext, a real war will likely start.

    The financial situations of the United States, Japan, Europe, and even China, are on the edge of ruin. Regardless of official lies and wishful thinking, there is no way to fix this without solutions worse than the problem. The can has been kicked down the road a long time… and there is little road left.

    It will require degrees of sacrifice that populations are only willing to endure in times of real war… and war that personally threatens them.

    Expect continued realignment in the Middle East as pro-Western dictators are replaced with weak Islamists and strong anti-Western dictators are replaced with weak ones.

    The West wants enemies… but beatable enemies… with their populations hating them only marginally less than they hate the West.

    And then, after a few terrorist attacks in Europe and America that rouse public anger and indignation… and are carried out by individuals with “proven ties” to the first target nation or group… expect rapid escalation to a larger scale war… fought mostly by acts of terrorism in Europe and demonstrations of Western air power in the Iranian sphere.

    In the end, it doesn’t matter if Iran is right or wrong, they are going down… and they are begging for it.

    And, somewhere along the way, the global financial nightmare will be reset using wealth created through the labor and resources of the losers of World War IV.

    If given a choice of continued Western economic decay and social instability… or a unified America rebuilding its manufacturing base and pushing its debt off by fighting unlovable Iranians… the choice gets rather clear.

    …or is there another way?

  • Glans
    5:55 am on February 3rd, 2012 91

    “Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders Jan. 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, according to accounts from well-placed senior military officers.” Anyhow, that’s what Gareth Porter says at ipsnews.

  • kangaji
    11:22 am on February 3rd, 2012 92

    http://mbn.mk.co.kr/pages/news/newsView.php?news_seq_no=1152499

    New name of Han Nara Dang – Sae Nuri Dang “sounds like a puppy’s name, sounds like something you’d name a preschool or a church.”

  • Sonagi
    2:47 pm on February 3rd, 2012 93

    #86:

    Yes, Iranians have been voting with their feet for decades, both during the Shah’s reign of terror and after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. The early years of the Islamic regime were the harshest. Women were forced to wear black chadors, face severe restrictions in employment, and the Bahais, viewed by the regime as heretics, were imprisoned, tortured, and executed. Those lucky enough not to be killed fled the country. Girls were raped first to keep them from going to Paradise. The Jewish community was also harassed, and some men were executed on charges of spying for Israel.

    I’m beginning to suspect that Glans might really be an Iranian nuclear scientist.

  • kangaji
    5:33 pm on February 3rd, 2012 94

    Chickenhead,
    Seems to me like the military is being cut down too much to fight World War IV. We’re dropping 80,000 personnel, to become a Captain you need to be best qualified now instead of fully capable, they’re trying to wind up Afghanistan by 2014 – but politicians are blah blah blahing about Iran while the military is getting ready to go into the early 90′s again.

  • Glans
    6:01 pm on February 3rd, 2012 95

    Sonagi 93, I don’t like the Iranian government, but I don’t think we should kill their scientists or bomb their nuclear sites. I don’t like the governments of North Korea, China, Russia, Pakistan, or Israel, but I don’t think we should kill their scientists or bomb their nuclear sites. In case you’re worried, I don’t think we should kill our own scientists or bomb our nuclear sites, either.

  • JFisher
    6:37 pm on February 3rd, 2012 96

    GLANS#95: You lump Israel in with those countries that are
    definitely not friends of the United States? Wow.

  • Sonagi
    8:11 pm on February 3rd, 2012 97

    You’ve made that clear, Glans. Your sarcasm in #80 falls flat, however.

  • Glans
    11:08 pm on February 3rd, 2012 98

    JFisher 96, Pakistan is our ally. Russia puts our astronauts in orbit. China buys our bonds.

    Sonagi 97, there is not a word of sarcasm in Glans 80.

  • JFisher
    7:01 am on February 4th, 2012 99

    GLANS#98: Pakistan is “playing” us big time. As soon as the
    Republicans take over this coming Nov. the plug will be pulled
    on the money we give them. It is common knowledge they are
    two faced and are covertly embedded with the radical Muslims we are at war with. Russia and China are acting chummy with us
    for economical and technology reasons that will in the future
    come to bite us in the ass big time. That writing is already
    on the wall. Russia is already openly lining up with Iran that has sworn wipe Israel off the map.

  • Glans
    3:18 pm on February 4th, 2012 100

    JFisher 99, that’s right, Republicans haven’t given money to Pakistan. (Sonagi, that was sarcasm). Iran has not sworn to wipe Israel off the map. It has called for the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem to end. It has called for Palestine, which in their thinking includes the land of Israel, to be governed democratically by all of the people living there. It wants the State of Israel, which it considers illegitimate, to be abolished peacefully. It advocates these changes, but does not swear that it will make them happen.

    Pakistan both supports terrorism and opposes it. I told you, I don’t like its government. Russia and China sometimes work with us, sometimes against us. (That’s not unusual: sometimes we work with them, and sometimes against them.) We’ve been unable to make them share our obsession with Iran.

    Why are we obsessed with Iran? Because Israel plays us. It takes our money, does what it wants, and persuades us to do what it wants, our own interests be darned.

  • been there
    5:41 pm on February 4th, 2012 101

    Take a little advice from me about terrorism being borned and raised in mississippi USA I can tell you I been living with terrorism all my life except the time I spent in the Army. Yea I said it. You get use to it.

  • JFisher
    10:08 am on February 5th, 2012 102

    #101 Here we go again. Another person that has a learning disability and can not put pen to paper and express themselves
    in an intelligent manner. No grasp of grammar and can’t spell the simplest of words. Amazing, f-ing amazing. How can anyone
    take a person serious if they come off as being ignorant from the git-go. Sad.

  • Retired GI
    1:25 pm on February 5th, 2012 103

    101 = Cretin

  • ChickenHead
    9:40 pm on February 5th, 2012 104

    Glans and Kangaji…

    Glans,

    You have frequently expressed such things as “Iran has not sworn to wipe Israel off the map.”

    I’m not sure if this is true or not.

    If one goes by the MSM, it is not true… but the MSM isn’t exactly trustworthy… especially as the war drums beat louder and louder.

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/

    Any comment?

    Kangaji,

    As Iraq and Afghanistan demonstrated, occupation and nation building are expensive and nonproductive. The need for expensive ground troops and logistics can be reduced.

    The next war will be fought with air power, mostly unmanned, backed by naval power… with some covert operations and some small-scale occupation of strategic areas.

    Four carrier groups will be off the Iranian coast by March… and a lot of assets have been making their way to the area… from Diego Garcia to Qatar. That may or may not mean anything.

    While Iraq and Afghanistan were wars where no victory was possible… and no real plan for a “victory” was even formulated, the next war will be the same… but with the clear understanding that no “victory” is possible when measured by usual standards.

    Victory will be measured not in military accomplishments against a semi-manufactured enemy but in surrounding goals… resetting the global financial system, rebuilding some domestic industries, controlling increasingly angry domestic populations, crippling China’s energy and export sectors, etc.

    Europe and the United States share many goals in this respect.

    The real thing to watch is not how many groundpounders are being let go… the real thing to watch is the explosion in drone technology… and the rapidly increasing infrastructure to apply them.

 

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