By Here is the latest episode in the culture war in regards to religion in the military:
Air Force Lt. Gen. Ronnie Hawkins, the new head of the Defense Information Systems Agency, is under fire for a commander’s call Wednesday that included references to God. But Hawkins, who just took over the directorship of DISA in January, said his presentation has been taken out of context.
As part of an all-hands meeting with DISA employees, Hawkins apparently showed a power point presentation that contained two slides titled “Ronnie’s Rules” that outline 18 priorites, the first and last of which are “Always put God first, and stay within His will” and “Always remember God is good — all the time!”
Hawkins said in a response to a query from Air Force Times that he stated at the all-hands meeting that “Ronnie’s Rules” were his personal road map for living and he has used it since he was a captain. He said he tries to live by these rules every day.
“Those two slides, in particular …were in no way a directive or expectation I have for our dedicated men and women,” said Hawkins, who previously served as deputy director of command control, communications and computer systems, Joint Staff at the Pentagon. “The rules are my own personal guide posts, or moral compass.”
All DISA employees apparently didn’t see the presentation the same way.
A DISA employee who witnessed the presentation spoke with Air Force Times under condition of anonymity. He said he was shocked that a senior leader would include such direct references to God in a commander’s call that in his opinion was held to say “I’m your new commander and this is what I expect of you.”
The employee said that he provided the presentation to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group, “in hopes of saving lives.”
MRFF’s founder and president, Mikey Weinstein, is calling for Hawkins to be court-martialed for violating his oath to the Constitution. He said he is representing 21 employees at DISA. [Air Force Times]
This is the way I look at it, it wasn’t a good idea for the general to reference God in what appears to be a mandatory event for personnel who work underneath him to attend. However, if people are so offended they should have contacted the IG before going to an outside group. It it totally unprofessional on part of the person who leaked this to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation who are now busy sensationalizing this as much as possible in the media with ridiculous demands for a court martial of LTG Hawkins. This could have been easily handled in house by the Air Force with the IG contacting General Hawkins and warning him of the concern over his remarks in a formal military functions. In the vast majority of cases the IG working an issue like this resolves it rather quickly. I would think LTG Hawkins would be more careful with his comments in the future at such events after being contacted by the IG. Contacting the IG would have avoided the media circus to bash the US military with that a group like the Military Religious Freedom Foundation is eager to create.
11:08 pm on February 20th, 2012 1
If I was there, the last thing I would have done would have been to go to the IG.
If you believe you have confidentiality and protection from retaliation when you file a complaint on a general officer, you are naive. Look at what happened to the people who blew the whistle on the Dover AFB morgue’s handling of service member’s remains.
Even if your complaint were taken seriously and the general were counselled you would never know because that would definitely handled confidentially. You would be left in the dark and still expect retaliation.
When I was in the Air Force we were constantly reminded to stay up on current events so we would be prepared to meet any boards. After the big to-do’s at the Air Force Academy and other places, how could a senior general in the USAF not know that giving a presentation that had even the appearance of religious indoctrination was a big no-no?
11:27 pm on February 20th, 2012 2
If only he had done it with a d1ck in his mouth and referred to “Allah”. Then we would be celebrating his courage, embracing diversity, and being open to other cultures.
You can’t win The Big Games anymore if you are an AWB or have a non-Muslim religion.
I hope he goes to prison. He’s obviously quite dangerous, spreading hatred, and out of control.
11:42 pm on February 20th, 2012 3
I’m dumbfounded about this “leader’s” comments after the fact and have lost confidence in him. How can he mention God so up front on the slide, but then say something like:
“Those two slides, in particular …were in no way a directive or expectation I have for our dedicated men and women,”
what does that even mean? Does it mean that its a bunch of BS along with the other points?
I look at his comments as something a coward would say and chalk it up to a disruption of the natural order where someone is elevated to “leader” status who doesn’t belong there. The services are full of those types. Pin on Corporal and *poof* your a leader…….
11:43 pm on February 20th, 2012 4
The only way he could save himself is to make a comment that he is a homosexual.
11:51 pm on February 20th, 2012 5
The general’s rules are agreeable.
If his version of God helps him follow those rules, good for everyone.
But, as the current withered crop of toxic religions is causing much of the world’s problems, it was inappropriate to bring God into the discussion.
God’s place is in the home and church… not at military or political events.
The general should be made an example of…
…but not exactly in a bad way.
He should publicly announce that he was wrong to promote his personal believe in God in an official capacity. He should further announce that God has no place in a profession that relies upon man’s planning, practice, and preparation rather than selfish prayer to a higher power that is somewhat self-obligated to serve all of mankind equally.
If he is unwilling to do this, he should be relieved… for exactly the same reasons that calls are made to punish those who offensively urinate on Taliban bodies… as official military acknowledgements of the Christian god are no less offensive to the enemy.
1:45 am on February 21st, 2012 6
Matthew 6:6
New International Version (NIV)
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
King James Version (KJV)
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly
2:11 am on February 21st, 2012 7
Crucify him. He clearly deserves it.
I bet he used the word “chink” somewhere in there too.
And I’d bet money if we had his stuff in a wordprocessor and searched for the letter “k” – it’d be equally divisible by 3…
I can’t believe we still allow people like this to serve in the armed services. Hasn’t he ever heard of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell???
2:19 am on February 21st, 2012 8
6 He wasn’t praying. You could say he was letting his light shine forth rather than hiding it under a bushel.
It’s irrelevant. Those two sentences are enough. He should count himself lucky not to do jail time.
What would our founding father’s say about such an action!
They so clearly set out to prevent our nation having an official religion. Do you think they would be caught dead in a public forum daring to mention the word God?
No! Why do you think Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton?
Washington would have been drug out and stoned to death by his staff if he’d tried this.
God had no place in our founding for the men of that time. Why the hell should it be allowed to pollute the public a quarter of a
centurymillennium later?2:31 am on February 21st, 2012 9
@8 How hard is it to keep ones religious beliefs out of the work place? I suppose next it will be okay for the Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons to start knocking on dorm room doors on the weekend? I personally have no problem with anyone’s religion, but I have my own thanks and would kindly ask you to keep yours to yourself. Especially during duty hours.
2:37 am on February 21st, 2012 10
It must be comfortable to be in the majority. Would all of you defend his right to belief had the slide stated “Satan is great!”? Somehow I doubt everyone would be quite so magnanimous. Perhaps its a sin in my religion to declare god great? Big deal, I should suck it up. The general meant well.
There are plenty of opportunities outside everyone’s professional life, and in the proper time and place, to practice one’s chosen religion du jour.
Should he be punished? No. Not unless he continues to do this.
2:40 am on February 21st, 2012 11
Perhaps superstition is the chink in the generals armor?
Force him to wear pregnancy empathy gear (with photos) and we’ll call it even.
2:45 am on February 21st, 2012 12
Why do you think the Israeli’s are so undefeatable in battle? They know how to handle guys who mention God in public – regardless of rank or position.
3:26 am on February 21st, 2012 13
#12 – it’s because of their purchasing power. The Israelis control an enormous amount of wealth and also an unbalanced power over the news media. Historically, they are money changers and more recently are well known to exert their perspective and ideas through mass media. When you have a lot of money, you are able to buy the best, moth lethal weaponry on the market. And if you’ve ever heard the ole adage, “the squeakiest wheel gets the oil” well how many people can you find on google that have gone down in flames for making anti-Semitic remarks? The Jews even assaulted Jimmy Carter for his opinions written in “Peace Not Apartheid” (many of whom never opened the book). And what happened to them? Not a thing. They got away with assaulting an ex-president. The dude who through a shoe at GW got 3 years.
When you wield money and media power, your pretty much unstoppable.
God blessed Israel for a reason. Though I have no idea why anyone would ever want to live in the middle east, I am glad America backs them because if we didn’t there would be little if any news. And I would miss the Jewish food.
3:43 am on February 21st, 2012 14
Huh? Kind of moving way off topic … but are you aware of where much of that wealth to buy those weapons comes from?
3:51 am on February 21st, 2012 15
When did it happen that we are now more offended by the word “God” than violence and hate? It boggles my mind. I do not care if you are Christian, Muslim, Atheist or whatever. Put what you want up.
This is not a religious issue…this is an issue of people being overly sensitive and too easily offended.
I am not saying the General was right. He wasn’t. I am saying why is this an issue worthy of news? Why are we calling for him to be burned at the stake when the matter can be simply resolved with a “HEY! Take that down!” We work to save the dying and the oppressed. We strive to help others. Many of us see some of the worst imaginable atrocities. This is not one of them.
As for the General, he needs to say what he meant by it and stand by his beliefs as well as apologizing for any offense and promise not to do it again in that sort of forum. Then the rest of the world should move the fuck on. I love how little people cry over such things when real problems are occurring right under their noses.
My random rant.
4:53 am on February 21st, 2012 16
This is nothing. When I was a junior NCO my Battalion Command Sergeant Major (CSM) held a mandatory NCO professional develpoment session for all the Non-Coms in the battalion. The subject? Financial planning. The instructor? The CSM’s brother-in-law, who just happened to make a living selling mutual funds, annuities, and other investment vehicles.
11:49 am on February 21st, 2012 17
Hot Stuff #16. When I was stationed at Ft Leonard Wood, MO once a month (I think that was the time period) there was a mandatory officers call at a hotel off base. Well guess who owned the hotel? The commanding general of Ft Leonard Wood. As I recall the general was kind of encouraged to retire. As to Ronnie’s rules if you look at how past presidents of all political parties & famous generals have mentioned God I don’t think this is really a big deal but the Secretary of the Air Force or a superior general officer could simply say don’t do it again. As Leon says don’t punish him unless he does it again. Big Foxtroting Deal.
1:05 pm on February 21st, 2012 18
Thanks Joe C. I only read the EXSUM, but found “Israel will purchase 20 F-35s at a cost of $2.75 billion, which will be paid for entirely with FMF grants” most interesting. paid for entirely with FMF grants? 20 free F-35′s not too bad
2:41 pm on February 21st, 2012 19
Too bad that he forgot to say the name of god is Allah. Would have saved much time.
Just ask Oliver Stone’s son.
I was once “invited” by a lower rank to attend church services. He was surprized when I excepted. He was more surprized when I walked out of said service when the speaker named the Buddha as a false profit. I told him I knew more than the speaker so the service was a waste of my time.
Then the troop in Iraq that inquired outside the PX if I were Christian and I said yes. He than asked if I wanted to pray with him and he was so shocked when i told him “No”, and that “my Religion was much like my sex life — Private and infrequent”.
School the Officer up and let it be.
But face it, if we didn’t fight over religion, we would fight over prostitution, or money or class, or drinking or drugs, or music or — oh wait, we fight over those as well. My bag. Please continue with your judging of others.
You know who’s fault it is? ***** Korean’s fault
2:57 pm on February 21st, 2012 20
GI, don’t want to debate it here, but curious…. as a self-proclaimed Christian, why would that make you walk out of a service?
3:34 pm on February 21st, 2012 21
It doesn’t matter if it’s god, allah or whatever (not much difference anyway). We were all taught the same thing in kindergarten: Leave your toys at home.
3:39 pm on February 21st, 2012 22
I was taught that if you bring your toys, be willing to share them. Not many Christians I know are not willing to share the gospels….
4:02 pm on February 21st, 2012 23
You were probably also taught that the other kids might break them or they may not care for your toys as much as you do. You might get your feelings hurt.
/Damn everything we needed to know, we really did learn in kindergarten!
4:26 pm on February 21st, 2012 24
Pushing religion is not bringing your cool toys to school to share with your friends.
Pushing religion is pushing your classmates to believe in your invisible friend.
…and then getting offended when they either have their own invisible friends or don’t believe in Santa Claus.
God wishes everyone to have cool toys to assist in mankind’s advancement… and God is happy when they are shared.
4:27 pm on February 21st, 2012 25
I guess I shoulda put
at the end of my post so as to not ruffle feathers! 
5:35 pm on February 21st, 2012 26
I wish each person had the opportunity to live under a true theocracy ran by their religion of choice for just one week. They might then understand what all the hoopla is about and why “innocent little things” and “what’s wrong with god” etc can lead to terrible things. They would then understand what a destructive and divisive force any religion can be.
Of course everyone sees their own religion as good and beneficial. But once religion has the force of government behind it, look out. And that is ANY religion. It is a slippery slope.
This very weekend one of the GOP frontrunners invoked satan. No this isn’t a repeat from the 1670′s. How very sad.
Let’s keep government out of our religion and religion out of government.
Everyone has the right to do what they like, until your rights trample mine.
5:48 pm on February 21st, 2012 27
I gladly identify myself as a Christian, but I do NOT believe in or respect organized religion. I believe that the church (not the entire Body of Christ as identified in the Bible, but the group most associate when thinking of organized Christianity) consists of the family and not much more. Each of us are taught (when we study the Bible on our own and stop letting others interpret it for us) that our relationship with God is a personal relationship. I never push my beliefs on others, but then again, I do not hide my belief either. I don’t wear it like a chip on my shoulder, but I’m also not afraid to profess that yes, I believe in Christ, I do believe He and God are one in the same and I do believe He offered Himself as a sacrifice to purify us \from all unrighteousness. If somebody else decides they cannot accept or believe that, that’s their business and not mine.
5:54 pm on February 21st, 2012 28
#20 Thomas Lee. I am not aware that The Buddha ever “clamed” to be a “profit” for any god. Based on that belief, I walked out.
I don’t preach. I enjoy my sin. I often plan it in advance. This is what I am.
I don’t believe in the streets of gold. I don’t think of “god” as an old “man” with long hair. Face it, put jeans and a T-shirt on the painting of what Jesus was supposed to look like and most “Christians” wouldn’t let him in their home to preach.
I guess you could say I’m conflicted. I have had many conversations with the “still wet behind the ear” born agains. I normally find it amusing, untill I find it annoying.
There are now so many religions that it is impossible to know. That must be why they call it “faith”. No one knows.
Christians were in the past willing to kill for the faith. Muslums are prepared to kill for their faith now, and do so.
I feel that all the religions have forgotten a part of their past.
In any case, it should be a private matter. Teach this Officer and let it go at that. If he wants to preach, he can change his skill identifier.
I have a friend on FB. I knew her when I and her husband were active duty. I bring her up because she has this habit of posting and giving thanks to God for whatever.
Makes me wonder who she is trying to convince, us or herself. I had enough one time and responded that I would like to thank Oxygen, for like God, I cannot live without it. I thought that would get my messege across; “stop it already, we get it, you believe!”. Nope, she spoke about how I needed to thank god for Oxygen because I would meet him one day. She COMPLETELY missed my “god” reference. I had to point it out to her.
Religion is fine. I don’t understand why you can burn a bible and people cheer but if you burn a Koran it is another matter — like a beheading matter. Again, I blame Koreans. It must be their fault!
I have a feeling that whatever or whoever IT is, IT is not happy with us.
Many people that know me (they think) would be quite surprized to know that I wrote this comment. (so don’t tell any of them — ok)
6:03 pm on February 21st, 2012 29
I was just curious. I’m not here to convince anybody… it’s a journey each of us have to embark upon by ourselves. I’ll leave it at that. But thanks for the reply.
6:07 pm on February 21st, 2012 30
Oh, and BTW: I agree, he should have never brought up God. While I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that God is important in his life, he chose a career in the world that in conflict with the faith he professes to adhere to. While he shouldn’t have to hide his faith, he has to understand he lives in a world in which he is just a temporary resident and like when visiting any place where one is a foreigner, not all his customs are acceptable to others. Therefore, he should “tone it down” and practice his faith either privately or with other believers – outside of the work place.
6:18 pm on February 21st, 2012 31
I used to work for LTG Hawkins back in Hawaii. I don’t have any hard feelings against him but there were official complaints (by other officers) about him using racial discrimination in hiring practices. I wasn’t one of the complainants but from what I saw this was true. Now, years later he’s involved in another controversial issue.
In a nutshell, I think it’s time LTG Hawkins to leave the service, whether it’s voluntary or not.
8:00 pm on February 21st, 2012 32
27. But don’t you see, you’re just making it up as you go along. I guess that’s OK though since that is how religion got started in the first place. It does make it hard to accept or “respect” when it’s just made up off the top of one’s head.
Another good reason to keep it at home and in ones place of worship (or whatever). Good for you!
8:24 pm on February 21st, 2012 33
Leon, I’m not stoking you, so please refrain from trying to stoke me. I’m not making nothing up as I go along. Please, if you want to make statements, at least know WHOM you’re talking to and what they believe before trying to lump them into a pile that you conveniently create.
8:27 pm on February 21st, 2012 34
#31, and there it is. Now he is attacked as a RACIST! Next you will say his hygiene was in Question as well.
It is chit like this that makes me want to support him all the more. He is a known and professed Christian, so now (in hushed tones) the conversation turns to a “possibility” of RACISM.
Would you say that about a Muslum? It is clear that Muslums, as a religion are PREJUDICE against none Muslums. That never gets the spotlight. But it is open season on Christians.
I had no idea that Officers were so juvenile. Well, yes I did.
This Political Correctness is to blame of course. Still Christians don’t have to worry about PC. It is open season on those that speak of it in the open.
So, the worst human that currently exist is: White-Male & Christian. I get it now. Opps, I forgot Republican and from a “red” state.
Which means that the best human that currently exist is a non-white female that is gay and pregnant, from a blue state and a Muslum.
That about it?
Good! Now lets have a party and go burn some Bibles. Allaha Akbar! Who’s bringing the Hookers?
8:56 pm on February 21st, 2012 35
Why do we keep hearing about mooslims in this thread? The general didn’t put forth a muslim agenda, did he? Why would that be alright? Why would anyone think that would be alright? Who would it be alright with?
Since people want to keep bringing it up, what the hell is the difference?
Despite the propaganda in each camp, the Quran and the Bible say the same basic things. Both say their religion is the only way of and to God. To attack the themes of one is to attack the themes of the other because they are the same themes with different names and faces to them. militant attitudes are identical, sparing few who don’t comply. The Quran and the Hadiths of Islam discriminate against women; so do the Bible and canonical tradition.
The Quran threatens eternal hellfire for idolators, apostates and unbelievers; so does the New Testament. The Quran promises a last Day of Judgment and a Day of Resurrection; so does the Bible. The Quran promises an endtime gathering with the angels; so does the Bible. Both also have the blowing of trumpets heralding the end. The Quran claims it is the sole guardian of cosmic and moral truth; so does the Bible. Both religions tolerate none, with thou shalt have no other gods before me as a central pillar. Both require belief to be saved. This could go on and on………….
So, I guess those pointing at islam have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves.
33. I did congratulate you on keeping stuff to yourself. I meant that. Kudos to you. I also agreed the general shouldn’t be punished unless he continues his pattern. Pretty reasonable I’d say…
Stating what you believe is fine, but if you are the only one who believes it, who made it up? I must still insist it’s “made up,” if you made it up.
9:01 pm on February 21st, 2012 36
Leon,
You are ignorant about Biblical things. Your emotions have clouded your judgements.
Please..spare us all! Just keep your opinions to yourself.
Just like a high school dropout talking about rocket science.
Everyone THINKS they are an expert.
9:12 pm on February 21st, 2012 37
Ole Tanker,
Perhaps it is the other way around, my friend.
I notice we agree on most things… Which brings up a salient point. But by all means, point out my errors. Please do!
9:51 pm on February 21st, 2012 38
Leon, I generally agree with the side you take and enjoy your comments. When it comes to religion however, your Atheistic Religion gets the best of you. You end up speaking just as loadly for your non-faith as the Christians and Muslums do for their faith. I find it interesting. The Christians say there is only one God. The Muslums scream that there is only one god and his name is Allah (which means god). Then you pipe into the mix and proclam just as loadly that there is no god. After a while, you sound just like the rest Leon. None of you are willing to except the other.
I believe I like The Buddha the best. However he never clamed to be any god. He just is.
I may start looking into Hinduism. They seem to have some logic involved. I like their art as well.
(I really enjoyed the reaction from two Jeovah’s Witnesses when they sat in my living room, with Pictures of Buddha I had taken in Korea on my wall. Plus it was Saturday and I was cleaning my M4 on a weight bench.) That was fun!
10:00 pm on February 21st, 2012 39
38. I promise there is no such thing as an Atheistic Religion. I know it’s hard to believe that what people believe in so absolutely can so easily be replaced by – nothing.
As far as the big religions which do exist, they are all so very divisive by their nature. They makes otherwise reasonable, empathetic and kind humans into hate filled monsters (if you disagree with them). …and of course those who disagree are not learned enough to speak of them even though people of the same faith profess it is OK to create your own beliefs, etc. etc. It is heart rending to see so much violence and hate directed between human beings because of religion. Makes me proud not to have one.
If I did have to lean toward a religion, I’m with you. Buddhism seems to be the most harmless, and possibly even good, of those currently offered.
10:12 pm on February 21st, 2012 40
There are certainly evangelical atheists.
(Reference thread above)
P.S. You must have missed the Buddhist riots in the 90s when they replaced leaders of the sect in Seoul…
10:15 pm on February 21st, 2012 41
You have one Leon, as your can be counted on to speak of it whenever religion is brought up.
To fail to act is still an act.
10:22 pm on February 21st, 2012 42
Actually, those riots were some of the worst in my first go around in Korea.
10:42 pm on February 21st, 2012 43
Our Group commander wanted everybody in the barracks to have a bible on their nightstand. My roommate, another SSG, decided he’d comply, but not before papering the walls and ceiling of his side of the room with some of the most horrific smut I have ever seen, before or since. There must have been some secret shop in Fayette-Nam selling this stuff. The next room inspection was quite the event.
11:50 pm on February 21st, 2012 44
So the guy saving the junkie is an addict? I don’t get it, anyway…
40. I remember the Buddhist riots. I’d say they were less than a mosquito bite compared the the billions of gallons of blood the Abrahamic religions have loosed on the world.
I’m not trying to convert anyone. I simply believe religion(s) should no longer get a free pass as they have in the past (mostly through threat of life and limb). There is a lot to answer for.
I am simply against human pain and suffering inflicted via certain belief systems. That certainly makes me a terrible person!
Long story short I am pointing out why it is correct and necessary to keep religion out of our government and vice-versa to protect both.
I will admit that I think the world would be a better place for everyone without superstition. Once again, I’m a terrible person for wishing people didn’t have to needlessly suffer but anyone who can watch the news or read a paper know from where the evil comes.
I guess that’s what hurts so much and draws the ire of the believer. Those near and dear beliefs crammed into the believer at a base level before they were old enough to differentiate fantasy from reality – they know people are killing each other, at this very moment, over those very beliefs. Quite a guilt trip.
I was only joking about becoming a Buddhist.
But I’ll stand by the fact it is the least blood gorged religion out there.
12:40 am on February 22nd, 2012 45
Yes, if we could only follow the LLP way.
Kumbaiyah, my nothing. Kumbiayah…
We’d all be peaceful little lambs…
Kumbiayah, my nothing. Kumbiayah…
Man is just BURSTING at the seams to join hands in peace, love, and fellowship, if it were not for those damned superstitions.
Kumbiayah, my nothing. Kumbiayah…
The tolerance and love for his fellowman Leon has demonstrated himself is a shining example of what could be if only….
Kumbia…….
1:33 am on February 22nd, 2012 46
45. It’s not my way. I certainly do not claim to have all the answers (like certain prophets) but I can see cause and effect.
Hell. Why have doctors? We’re all just going to die anyway. No reason to attempt to improve the human condition. There would still be evil and war without religion. But, perhaps there would be less. Maybe just one less.
All humans are born atheist. Someone has to teach them religion. It’s odd how generally children believe what their parents believed and so on… Especially if only one can be right.
Anyway, I’ll leave you all to it. You can’t argue the point intelligently without attacking… So much for civil discourse on the bigger things…
1:42 am on February 22nd, 2012 47
And here I thought I was participating in a manner farily common here these many days….
1:45 am on February 22nd, 2012 48
47. very droll. I can smell the smugness from here.
/back at ya!
1:49 am on February 22nd, 2012 49
Droll and smartassedness too – guilty as charged. Again, seemingly par for the course for a long time now…
1:50 am on February 22nd, 2012 50
49. Not always.
/in some cases, just when convenient.
//look you all up tomorrow
1:55 am on February 22nd, 2012 51
I wonder if anyone caught my Bowfinger reference?
2:00 am on February 22nd, 2012 52
That clip doesn’t show it, but I had forgotten about the Shak-e-speare line…With all the farcical “chink in the armor” insantiy going on, you’d thought it would have come to mind easily….