ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on November 21st, 2012 at 3:20 am

Students and Faculty from Harlem School Using Korean Education Model Visit Korea

The guy who began using the Korean educational model at a Harlem school has made a visit to Korea with some of his students:

Education Minister Lee Ju-ho (3rd from R) poses for a picture with a group of teachers and students from Democracy Prep Public Charter Schools in the U.S. on Nov. 20. 2012 in Seoul. (Yonhap)

A group of teachers and students from U.S. charter schools that successfully adopted the Korean education met with the education minister here on Tuesday and shared their experiences.

Some 40 faculty members and students from Democracy Prep Public Charter Schools (DPPS) are in Seoul for a two-week trip through Wednesday to have chances to learn the Korean language and culture, just as they did at their schools.

Inspired by the Korean education system after having taught English in the Asian country for one year, Seth Andrew established the DPPS network in Harlem in 2006 and currently operates seven schools in New York.

The schools have been in the spotlight for their outstanding academic performance, with parents having enthusiastically enrolled their children in the charter schools, and Mayor Michael Bloomberg hailing their success, according to local media.

All students, mostly Latinos and African-Americans, are required to learn Korean language as a mandatory class, and they also do club activities related in Korean culture, such as Korean traditional dance and folk songs, or Taekwondo, through which they can learn “the core values of discipline, respect and enthusiasm,” according to a school official.   [Yonhap]

I think it is important to point out what Sonagi mentioned when I first posted about this charter school in Harlem; the school has not changed students, it just changed out students.  If what has been written about Democracy Prep Public Charter Schools is true than it is not really the Korean educational model that is making the difference but instead being able to recruit motivated students and not allowing underachievers to enroll.

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  • Teadrinker
    3:28 am on November 21st, 2012 1

    The Korean educational model minus the demotivating factor of concentrating on studying for tests with no concern for the individual motives of the students, I hope. (And yes, the notion that Korean students in general are most strongly motivated by test scores is BS. I’ve done the research, I have the stats…Trust me when I say that anyone who claims otherwise is blowing smoke up your butt in order to protect his or her vested interests in the system).

  • Kangaji
    6:44 am on November 21st, 2012 2

    Well then, post the research and stats for us.

  • Dr.Yu
    7:27 am on November 21st, 2012 3

    Is creativity the only thing that matters in students curriculum? In my opinion all those creativity oriented students are filling the barracks of the USA army today …. That’s very creative :lol:

  • Tom
    8:16 am on November 21st, 2012 4

    All that creativity didn’t help the kids in slums, with literacy. ;-)

    All that creativity didn’t stop their country being basically bankrupt and their people living on the fruits of labor established by their forefathers.

    All that creativity didn’t prevent them from not having decent health care system and their life span decreasing.

    Creativity my a$$.

  • Dr.Yu
    9:15 am on November 21st, 2012 5

    Tom, you have a creative a$$? :lol:

  • Ifindthisinteresting
    1:48 pm on November 21st, 2012 6

    Really? If the Korean edu system is soooooo good, then why all the hagwons? Why do Koreans dream of sending their kids to the US ( or elsewhere)for an education? Why aren’t Korean uni’s in the top 20 of the world?

    Also, why isn’t Korea number 1 instead of number 12?

    Tom, please explain.

  • Setnaffa
    1:48 pm on November 21st, 2012 7

    Strange how those who promote the current system are the first to use its failure to call for increasing the bad medicine.

    “No Child Left Behind” retards the whole school to the speed of the least capable and/or least motivated.

    Creativity is NOT rewarded in schools that force-feed students with amateur versions of Marx’s dialectical materialism. The sad fact is that home-schooled kids are even out-performing most private-schooled kids at science fairs and public schools are essentially child care facilities with ashtrays and nurseries.

    Self-inflicted wounds of a culture that has grown to despise its roots because it was taught lies by traitors and foreign agents.

    It may be too late for anything but Divine Intervention to save us; but that won’t help the Chinese who are even now hearing the sounds of a population with reemerging ambition and capitalistic urges…

  • chefantwon
    5:52 pm on November 21st, 2012 8

    Please, the US education system (K-12) has been screwed for years and people still do the same crap. KEEP THROWING MONEY AT IT! They hope by doing so, it will solve the problems and guess what kiddies, it DOESN’T!

    A simple method would be to go back and actually teach kids the freaking basics! You know, reading writing, and arithmetic. Add in History, Science, Geography, Government, and a Foreign Language. Nice and simple. Allow the teachers to teach the damn subjects and the principals to do the administration of evicting the kids that can’t abide by the rules.

    Schools today are part day care center and part classroom. Neither job gets even the remotest chance of being accomplished because of our great and wise politicians and their pc view of the world.

  • Tom
    8:38 pm on November 21st, 2012 9

    Question 1:
    “Really? If the Korean edu system is soooooo good, then why all the hagwons? Why do Koreans dream of sending their kids to the US ( or elsewhere)for an education?”

    Answer:
    I’ll explain it in your neanderthal language, since I know with your low education mind, it’s difficult for you to understand. Because of two things. Number one, because of overzealous of learning English, which are a complete waste of time and resources. Number two, because Koreans don’t know any better. They think West is the best, until they actually visit it and find out for themselves how untrue it is and how overblown it is.

    Question 2:
    “Why aren’t Korean uni’s in the top 20 of the world?”

    Answer:
    Who rates these universities and according to who’s stadards? The west who think they’re the best. Without Asian foreign students, your schools would be hollowed out and/or filled with second rate students.

    Question 3:
    “Also, why isn’t Korea number 1 instead of number 12?”

    You should be asking why China will be taking over number 1 position from the US, in couple of years, if not already. The US has 7 times Korea’s population. US land mass is bigger by the factor of multitudes, while your land is filled with natural resources and riches like oil. Korea has neither and has zero resources. All it has is its people. You Americans are lucky not because you are superior but because you fell upon the discovery by luck and then decided to kill and enslave the people who preceded you, and then steal the land from them. Exploitation of other countries have been the name of your game for centuries and nothing much has changed.

    But despite all the advantages you’ve been afforded and fortunate enough to be born into it, you guys blew it big time. Your greed, arrogance, and corruption is bringing you guys down.

    You’re not just number one. You’re number one indebted nation in the face of the world’s history.

    In about 15 years, my prediction is that the average Korean will be richer with higher standard of living than the US who despite having so much at your disposal still couldn’t make it work. That’s what I call incompetence.

    There, I hope I laid it out in easy Neanderthal terms for you, Jack. :grin:

  • esl writer
    1:44 am on November 22nd, 2012 10

    Anyone who believes the Korean education system is a model worthy of replication quite simply does not understand the Korean education system.

  • Sonagi
    6:08 am on November 22nd, 2012 11

    A simple method would be to go back and actually teach kids the freaking basics! You know, reading writing, and arithmetic. Add in History, Science, Geography, Government, and a Foreign Language. Nice and simple. Allow the teachers to teach the damn subjects and the principals to do the administration of evicting the kids that can’t abide by the rules.

    We teach all these things at my school and every other public school across the country. Tthese subjects all have standardized curricula with annual tests mandated by NCLB, in fact, most states have adopted the Common Core standards established by the Dept, of Educatuon, there’s nothing in the standards about basket weaving or whatever else you think kids learn in school. As for kicking out kids, education laws make that very hard to do, Federal law guarantees every child the right to a free, appropriate education,

    “No Child Left Behind” retards the whole school to the speed of the least capable and/or least motivated.

    If that were true, we wouldn’t see a range of scores. Unlike Korean teachers who need plan only one lesson for everyone, American teachers must provide differentiated lessons with different groups of students working on different skills to ensure that everyone learns.

    Creativity is NOT rewarded in schools that force-feed students with amateur versions of Marx’s dialectical materialism. The sad fact is that home-schooled kids are even out-performing most private-schooled kids at science fairs and public schools are essentially child care facilities with ashtrays and nurseries.

    More ignorance from another commenter who gets all his information from the media and has spent very little if any time in a real classroom. Here’s some research to clarify your media-muddled thinking:

    WARNING: the following fa Utah, logical, verifiable statements may not be appropriate for Fox viewers.

    “Common wisdom and past research holds that private schools achieve better academic results. Assumptions of the superiority of private-style organizational models are reflected in voucher and charter programs, and in the choice provisions of the No Child Left Behind Act. According to this thinking, schools in the choice-based independent sector are the best model for improving achievement in public schools. Market-oriented school choice reforms are premised on the idea that, by positioning parents as the driving force in the quest for quality, schools will be forced to improve when faced with competition from higher performing rivals.
    However, new results from a study of a large, comprehensive dataset on US student achievement seriously challenge assumptions of private school superiority overall, and find substantial differences between different types of private schools. Based on the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) mathematics exam, this analysis compares achievement in public, charter, and different types of private schools. When compared with other subjects (like reading, for instance), math is more heavily influenced by school than home experiences, so studying math achievement provides clearer insights into the relative performance of different types of schools

    Without controlling for student background differences, private schools scored higher than non- charter public schools, as would be expected. However, this study examines these patterns further, determining whether they are due simply to the fact that higher proportions of disadvantaged students are enrolled in public schools, and the extent to which the gaps persist after controlling for potential student- and school-level confounding variables, including measures of socioeconomic status, race/ethnicity, gender, disability, limited English proficiency, and school location. Overall, the study demonstrates that demographic differences between students in public and private schools more than account for the relatively high raw scores of private schools. Indeed, after controlling for these differences, the presumably advantageous “private school effect” disappears, and even reverses in most cases.”

    http://datacenter.spps.org/uploads/Public_Schools_Edge_in_Math_Lubienski.pdf

  • Sonagi
    6:11 am on November 22nd, 2012 12

    factual

  • Ifindthisinteresting
    7:39 am on November 22nd, 2012 13

    It must really suck for people like Tom who are brainswashed into thinking Korea is best and then they go abroad and realize the opposite and that no one knows anything about the Hermits! It must be crushing!

    However… HA! HA! Jokes on you Tom!!

    Tom, I’m not American, so good call on your part with that one gobber! Putting your education to work I see! Good job!

    China doesn’t matter because you are Korean, that is if you’re actually Korean. That being said, it’s Korea that should worry about China, more than any other country.

    “Who rates these universities and according to who’s stadards? The west who think they’re the best. Without Asian foreign students, your schools would be hollowed out and/or filled with second rate students.”

    You tell me Tom, afterall you’re the Korean with the superior education system and the rest of the people in the world are just barbarians. Don’t pretend that Koreans consider other Asians to be your equals because when it comes down to it, most Koreans really don’t think this way unless, like you, they use them to back up their/your bullshit.

    “There, I hope I laid it out in easy Neanderthal terms for you, Jack.”

    With your superior Korean education Tom you should know that you answered none of my questions, you just responded with bullshit…GOOD ONE!!! YEAH TOM!!! This is the kind of thing I’ve experienced over the years when dealing with Koreans, especially when they think all white and black people are American.

    Also, explain the existance of hagwons that teach subjects other than English.

    No wonder foreigners end up leaving your country with nothing good to say.

    So Tom, try giving REAL answers instead of spewing out anecdotes, or crap your seniors may have told you, or your opinion because ONCE AGAIN, you didn’t give real answers-but you never do anyway.

  • Denny
    11:16 am on November 22nd, 2012 14

    Virginia sets race based standards

    http://m.npr.org/news/U.S./163703499

    In math it set an acceptable passing rate at 82 percent for Asian students, 68 percent for whites, 52 percent for Latinos, 45 percent for blacks and 33 percent for kids with disabilities.

    At least one board member responded indignantly to accusations that the new policy harkens back to the era of segregation and Jim Crow. “We’re not trying to go back to Jim Crow. What does that make us, Uncle Toms?” said Winsome Sears, one of three black board members at a meeting last month.

    “So why do we have these different subgroups? Because we’re starting with black children where they are. We can’t start them at the 82 percentile because they’re not there. The Asian students are there. And so the real question is why aren’t black students starting at the 82 percentile? Why? Why are they not there?” Sears said.

  • kushibo
    11:51 am on November 22nd, 2012 15

    Denny, that’s an interesting article. And while I’m not saying I agree with everything the Virginia board is doing, I think what they’re doing is being mischaracterized when what they’re using as a reality-based starting point is being misconstrued as a permanent endpoint:

    “Rest assured, all of us hold all students to the same academic standards, but when it comes to measuring progress, we have to consider that students start at different points,” Wright said.

    In a phone interview with NPR, Wright explained that Virginia’s expectation is that all students, regardless of race or ethnicity, will correctly answer the same number of questions to pass the state tests.

    But the reality is that black and Latino children generally don’t do as well as white and Asian children, and that gap, says Wright, is what the new policy is meant to address by setting more modest goals for struggling minority children and giving them more time to catch up.

    “The concept here is that if indeed within six years we can close the achievement gap between the lowest- and highest-performing schools — at least cut it in half — that would be acceptable progress,” says Wright.

    And it’s always fun to read education-related stuff by Sonagi, who has quite a lot of experience in Korea, China, and the eastern United States.

    As a general rule of thumb on issues like education, if you find yourself on the opposite side of whatever position she’s taking, you should go back, recalibrate, and rework some of your ideas.

  • Dr.Yu
    12:14 pm on November 22nd, 2012 16

    Great …. Now I wonder what is the difference between the black kids in Virgina and the kids from the Democracy Prep Public Charter Schools …. isn´t it obvious? that´s Teakwondo classes of course …. :lol:

  • Tom
    1:04 pm on November 22nd, 2012 17

    Denny’s link interesting. ha ha ha.. so whites can’t compete with Asians, so let’s lower the standards for them, just to be kind. ha ha ha.. that’s a good one.

  • Teadrinker
    3:31 pm on November 22nd, 2012 18

    #2,

    I don’t need to provide further details of my research, thus revealing my true identity, to bring that into evidence. No, just look at all the kids who aren’t doing so well or the ones who attend the “technical” high schools, and the ones who are into sports or the arts. There are many of them in Korea and they clearly aren’t motivated by test-taking. Oh, but you’re going to bring up aptitude. Well, consider this: it’s been shown that motivation often trumps aptitude.

  • Teadrinker
    3:39 pm on November 22nd, 2012 19

    #8,

    Here’s something you aren’t considering: you don’t have programs to deal with the social problems which impact education. Spending more on education is not the solution if you don’t deal with many of the very real problems kids are faced with. If you provide support to the parents, the kids will perform better in school. Yes, teachers can only do so much.

  • Teadrinker
    3:52 pm on November 22nd, 2012 20

    #9,

    Answer to Question 1) You got it all effed up. Are you sure you’re Korean? You are clearly oblivious to ‘kyoyukyeol’ (education fever). Koreans as a whole perform better on many key subjects than most, if not all, kids in other countries (not making this up, look it up in the OECD reports). However, the routinely under-perform on standardized English tests despite the resources and efforts expended on English education (in part as a result of ‘education fever’ and ‘English fever’). It’s got something to do with the ideological foundation of English education in Korea.

    Answer to Question 2) Koreans are ranked 6th in the world in tertiary education attainment, 1st if you only consider the 20 to 35 demographics. Again, OECD figures. Look it up, the latest report just came out.
    PS. Canada is ranked 1st overall.

    3) Can’t say I fully disagree with the rest of your comment.

  • Teadrinker
    3:59 pm on November 22nd, 2012 21

    “Anyone who believes the Korean education system is a model worthy of replication quite simply does not understand the Korean education system.”

    Yes, what makes Korean students successful in key subjects may have less to do with the educational system, and more to do with ‘education fever’ and other sociological factors (I recommend you check out Seth’s ‘Education Fever: society, politics, and the pursuit of schooling in South Korea’ since your nick suggests you are into this sort of thing).

  • Sonagi
    4:23 pm on November 22nd, 2012 22

    I knew sh*t would hit the fan when those different passing rates for each racial group were announced. As usual the white-black achievement gap gets all the attention while the Asian-white in math persists unnoticed. The passing rates for reading are 92% for Adians and 90% for whites while the math passing rates are 82% and 68% respectively. Does anyone think that Asian students just happen to get better math teachers! No, I didn’t think so, yet standardized tests scores are used as primary evidence of teacher capability. Likewise, the Hispanic passing rate of 52% is higher than the 48% passing rate set for black students, Do Hispanics, who are clustered in the same high poverty schools as black children, just happen to have better teachers?

    The VA minimum passing rates lay bare the absurdity of NCLB mandated passing rates, which were supposed to reach 100% in 2013. Virginia and many other states got waivers after agreeing to institute new teacher evaluation standards that give 40% weight to test score data. While promoting RTTT, Arne Dumbkin insists with a straight face that teachers shouldn’t teach to tests that comprise by far the largest share of their evaluation criteria.

    NCLB puts 100% of the responsibility for achievment on schools in spite of research showing that 80% of student achievement gaps owe to non-school factors like parental involvement and SES . Rather than mandating minimum passing rates with a cascade of consequences imposed by the federal government on schools that fail to meet all 20 benchmarks, let’s make student achievement a shared responsibility by publicizing score data for transparency and holding public forums with religious and civic leaders and paretns to figure out together how to help children from disadvantaged homes reach their full potential.

  • JoeC
    4:59 pm on November 22nd, 2012 23

    The country might be getting even dumber due to this kind of stuff.

    [Sen. Marco] Rubio, during an interview with GQ, was asked how old he thinks Earth is.

    “I’m not a scientist, man,” he said. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow.”

    If our political leaders are going to poo-poo on science, how can we ask more from kids? And yes, Sen Rubio, it has a whole lot to do with our economy in the long run.

  • Teadrinker
    5:03 pm on November 22nd, 2012 24

    #22,

    Yes, and the fact that sort of thing happens in the US, that such an inequality is allowed to exist and persist along economic lines (if I didn’t know better, I’d think it was social engineering was at play…keeping the poor uneducated to have a steady source of cheap labor), is one of the primary reasons why I’m happy I’m not American.

  • Teadrinker
    5:11 pm on November 22nd, 2012 25

    #23,

    Yup, part of the reason why you’re lagging behind most Western nations in terms of social programs and education. During the Cold War, your government pushed Christianity upon people, in part as a counterweight to Soviet ideology, but also to ensure that a huge chunk of your budget would be concentrated on propping up the military industrial complex. Look at how those idiots freak out because Obama care (a very weak form of universal healthcare, if you can even call it that) is supposedly ruining the country, as if providing services which benefits them is somehow wrong.

  • kushibo
    5:14 pm on November 22nd, 2012 26

    Rubio is a rube.

    First, the Bible doesn’t say a date; it’s interpreted by both Biblical literalists (some of whom believe about six millennia) and Biblical figurativists (who tend to agree with mainstream scientists).

    Second, “recorded history” doesn’t have anything to say about the age of the Earth, since recorded history is a teeny, tiny percentage of Earth’s total existence.

    Third, inability to accept information at face value, combined with a tendency to cherry-pick scientific facts in order to support one’s foregone conclusion based on religious dogma, has loads to do with how we problem solve and innovate and prepare for the future, and thus has loads to do with how our economy is going to grow.

    The best thing for the GOP to do right now is to allow independents to vote in GOP primaries so that religious zealots won’t have the entire slew of GOP candidates by the cojones.

  • Tom
    5:18 pm on November 22nd, 2012 27

    This affirmative program for Whites in universities has to stop. If they are not smart enough to make the grades, then they shouldn’t be given a free pass just because of their race. Just going by this alone, America’s technology would collapse without the Asians engineers and programmers who are running America’s high technology industries.

  • kushibo
    5:20 pm on November 22nd, 2012 28

    During the Cold War, your government pushed Christianity upon people, in part as a counterweight to Soviet ideology, but also to ensure that a huge chunk of your budget would be concentrated on propping up the military industrial complex.

    I think it was more to do with pushing the military industrial complex onto Christianity.

    “I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it.”
    — Reverend Billy Graham, Parade, 1981

  • John
    9:33 pm on November 22nd, 2012 29

    Once again, Teadrinker claims special knowledge and extraordinary experience but does not write anything to give credibility to the claim. He actually avoids giving any sort of further information, as his lack of mastery would be easily noticed.

    In contrast, Sonagi has written extensively about education. She has not bragged about lofty qualifications or grand-yet-vague experience but has related specific incidents and clearly explained her firm and consistant opinions in such a way that likely could only be done by someone with true knowledge and experience.

    Others, such as Kushibo, have also demonstrated mastery of a topic and, through the skills and experience necessary for this, they consistently relate sound opinions with reasonable explanations based on obvious broad knowledge.

    Teadrinker is much like Tom. They both make claims, Tom against America and Teadrinker about himself, but never back them up. Tom simply ignores skeptics while Teadrinker gets defensive, makes excuses and occasionally resorts to insults and counter-accusations.

    Teadrinker, why don’t you write a real comment. Why don’t you tell us about your scientific conclusions and how they were reached. You don’t need to give your identity away. You just need to explain how you came to those conclusions, which should be quite easy for anyone who did any real research.

  • kushibo
    12:36 am on November 23rd, 2012 30

    Teadrinker is much like Tom. They both make claims, Tom against America and Teadrinker about himself, but never back them up. Tom simply ignores skeptics while Teadrinker gets defensive, makes excuses and occasionally resorts to insults and counter-accusations.

    So what you’re saying, John, is that Tom is a jackass of all tirades and a master of nothing?

  • kushibo
    12:37 am on November 23rd, 2012 31

    The bearded Caucasian gentleman looks like someone I went to Yonsei with.

  • Teadrinker
    3:58 am on November 23rd, 2012 32

    #28,

    Nah, it was morel like a symbiotic relationship.

  • Teadrinker
    4:00 am on November 23rd, 2012 33

    #29,

    Too stupid to pick up a book. Read the book I recommended in another post. Also, if you can afford it, pick up a copy of The Local Construction of a Global Language: Ideologies of English in South Korea.

    There…

  • Glans
    5:23 am on November 23rd, 2012 34

    Senator Marco Rubio is a member of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation; subcommittee on Science and Space.

  • Teadrinker
    6:43 am on November 23rd, 2012 35

    “Why don’t you tell us about your scientific conclusions and how they were reached.”

    I’ve already explained that before in another thread, and you accused me of pulling words from the internet (i.e. piss off).

  • Glans
    11:00 am on November 23rd, 2012 36

    Teadrinker raised an important subject in his comment at 3:31PM on 22 November — he doesn’t want to disclose his true identity. Therefore I can’t agree completely with John’s comment at 9:33PM that evening. He cites kushibo and Sonagi as outstanding commenters, but I beg to differ because they both reveal too much personal information. I’ve been able to determine their true identities: Sonagi is really Mattie Ross, who achieved fame at the age of fourteen years by bringing her father’s murderer to justice with true grit; kushibo is really Clark Kent, a journalist at the Daily Planet.

  • John
    12:02 pm on November 23rd, 2012 37

    Let’s see if Teadrinker has any new tricks in his bag to keep attention off his complete lack of character or ability.

    “Too stupid to pick up a book.”

    Nope. Once again, he uses insults (instead of facts) to counter skepticism.

    “Read the book I recommended in another post.”

    As usual, it comes back to him, his knowledge and his instructions to the little people (like us).

    “Also, if you can afford it”

    Yet another insult with the hint that HE has more money than others. We are all too poor to afford a book unless we eat raman for a couple of weeks and skimp on washing our socks.

    “pick up a copy of The Local Construction of a Global Language: Ideologies of English in South Korea.”

    Instead of writing about his own (mythical) research to solidify his claims, he refers us to a book (that we probably can’t afford) written by someone else.

    Copying someone’s published work is not “research”, Teadrinker. Supporting your claim of “research” by referring to another person’s published work means you either did no research or you did the laziest research in the history of mankind by reading a book and passing off its conclusions as your own.

    You are a fraud, Teadrinker. You have never done any “research”. You simply formed some opinions on the Korean education system (that may actually be valid) through your long-term hakwan job (that you dare not quit as there is nothing for you back home). You are ashamed of your lowly status, your lack of savings and the near future of the English teaching racket that will have no place for a 40-some year old Canadian that is needlessly proud and constantly abrasive to his co-workers. Your Korean wife has lost her foreigner fantasy and now constantly hassles you about why you are a loser like most of the other teachers in Korea, except you are not 25 anymore like they are so you no longer get a pass.

    You have probably guessed by now that we know each other. You just have to figure out who I am which won’t be easy because I will always look you in the eye and nod my head with a smile when you spew your usual verbal diarrhea.

    This is why you have no friends.

  • Tom
    12:54 pm on November 23rd, 2012 38

    I agree with #37, except it doesn’t just apply to Teadrinker, it applies to all the ESL losers.

  • chefantwon
    5:52 pm on November 23rd, 2012 39

    #11, if the public school system is doing so great then why are there cities that graduate less than 80% of their students? According to that bastion of Republican news CNN, they cite aproximately a 75% graduation rate. Our politicians have FOR YEARS done the same basic strategy and to date, what has been accomplished? Not much if anything at all!

    Lets look at the case of the ever lowering standards based upon race. You expect a race to know less than expected, and guess what, they are in fact learning at a lessor rate because no effort is undertaken to teach everybody at the same level. We already have athletes graduating who can’t read or write up to standards, just to have colleges find a way they can stay because of their athletic talents.

    Teadrinker – while there are kids that need special attention due to their needs, we should do our best to try and get these children up to the same standards as everyone else.

    30 years ago, our graduation rates were higher than they are today. What has changed since the 1980′s? More single mothers, more children being raised by their grandparents, less parental involvement in schools, and more crime. Until the underlining conditions are addressed and fixed, our schools are going to continue to keep spirling down that ever present path of kids not being able to keep up in an ever changing world.

  • Sonagi
    6:57 pm on November 23rd, 2012 40

    The public school system is not doing great, Our schools in general are doing the best they can with the most challenging student population in the OECD. You acknowledged the challenges in your final paragraph. As for not teaching everyone the same things, you are absolutely wrong, standards-based learning, introduced in the mid-99s prior to NCLB, requires teachers to teach grade-level content to every single child. Tracking fell out of favor years ago. There are no lowered standards based on race, There are ldifferent required passing rates (meaning the percentage of students who must pass to meet AYP, not the minimum score needed to pass) for each racial group to reflect the inequalities outside of school, which account for 80% of student achievement gaps. However much politicians, business leaders, and the public may wish that effective teaching alone could overcome the effects of parental neglect, inadequate nutrition, lack of regular physical activity, environmental pollution, and other factors that keep chuldren from reaching their full genetic potential, that simply isn’t possible. You are correct that unkess these underlying conditions are addressed, our student achievement will remain low relative to other advanced countries.

  • JoeC
    12:29 am on November 24th, 2012 41

    One of the most useful concepts I’ve ever learned and has been proven true over and over again has been the Pygmalion Effect. People, most especially children, will develop into our expectations of them. Too often people, and society in general, will have instant judgments on others based on things like race, gender or disabilities.

    When you have low expectations for a young person, that’s what they will tend to develop into. But approach them with much higher expectations and that’s very likely what you will get also.

    There is probably a critical turning point somewhere around the time the person reaches their twenties. That may be why military service has been proven so effective at turning many people’s life around.

  • Sonagi
    6:08 am on November 24th, 2012 42

    I understand the importance of high expectations, Joe. I and my colleagues do set high expectations for our students. We strive for every single student to learn the standards we are teaching and support generously those who are struggling, yet the achievement gap remains. . Kids with IQs above average can get by without much parental investment. Kids with IQs below average cannot, even kids with exceptional motivation, I have some incredibly hardworking students who give 100% in class and cheerfully accept extra homework that I give them to reinforce content learned in class,. Their scores, however, remain low on the quarterly benchmark tests we pay a company for the right to use so we can track each child’s progress and readiness to take the big tests in the spring that determine how well we’re doing our jobs. A lot of $$$$$$ is spent on multiple-choice testing, thanks to NCLB and RTTT, and companies like Pearson lobby to keep the gravy train rolling at full speed. I challenge any parent with children in public schools to show up at a school board meeting and ask for a total figure on NCLB and RTTT-related testing, including not only the costs of the mandated annual tests and the quarterly benchmark tests but also the human resources spent administering each test and the software needed to organize and analyze the data. Our district spent a chunk of money on new software needed to implement the new teacher evaluation program forced on us by the state, which in turn, was coerced and bribed by the US Department of Education. Because of Arne Dumbkin and Race to the Bottom, I was not going to vote for a candidate for president in November. I changed my mind after seeing Romney’s running mate and their platform calling for increased defense spending while cutting social programs.

  • Sonagi
    2:14 pm on November 24th, 2012 43

    The military supports its high expectations by acting en loco parentis, providing housing, reasonably nutritious meals, health care, and supervision with consistent enforcement of expectations.

  • Teadrinker
    3:30 am on November 25th, 2012 44

    #37,

    You missed the crucial part of my last comment: piss off.

  • John
    4:47 am on November 25th, 2012 45

    Again, Teadrinker runs from answering simple questions and hopes it will go unnoticed if he acts angry or offended and throws out an insult.

    I would ask others to draw their own conclusion, but with such consistancy in action (and inaction), it is likely they already have.

    Teadrinker, you are clown shoes.

  • Glans
    7:19 am on November 25th, 2012 46

    John, do you mean that he actually is clown shoes, or only that he wears them?

    Sonagi, that’s in, not en, loco parentis. Latin, not Latino, capisce?

  • Teadrinker
    7:23 am on November 25th, 2012 47

    Again, John can’t take a clue.

  • Teadrinker
    5:08 pm on November 25th, 2012 48

    #46,

    Don’t bother. He’s got nothing better to do than to harass perfect strangers over the internet. Jealousy? A chip on his shoulder for the sorry lot that life has given him? Either way, arguing with him is an exercise in futility, akin to wrestling a bottle of Lysol drink from a vagrant. In the end, you only end up with his stench on you.

  • John
    5:38 pm on November 25th, 2012 49

    Google “you are clown shoes”, Glans.

    Teadrinker, you have not argued. “Arguing” requires that you counter opposing statements with facts or opinion clearly based upon facts.

    Why don’t you write more about your education “research” in the same detail that Sonagi writes about education. That would be more convincing than angry insults or referrals to the published work of others.

  • Tom
    8:23 am on November 28th, 2012 50

    A new international study says South Korea’s education system is second in the world, only after Finland.

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/11/116_125748.html

    Looking through the ranking, I noticed that all the high growth dynamic economies are up there, while most Western countries are lagging seriously behind both in education standings. It’s not coincidence that West’s economic growth rates are also lagging behind, in parallel to their poor education performance. In fact if it wasn’t for Asian ethnic minorities in the West, I’m pretty sure the education rankings of most Western nations would even further drop off.

    I don’t think it’s the matter of genes or it’s a matter of who has a better education system. It’s the matter of East Asians with higher expectations and putting in greater effort, while Westerners, especially the white guys sitting in their high chairs, looking down on people, telling rest of the people what they’re doing wrong and ordering people around – resting and living off of their past achievements made by their forefathers, mistakingly thinking they’re the greatest by default.

 

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