Picture from Flickr user ChrisGoldNY
The Marmot’s Hole has a link to an article accusing USFK of not handing over a soldier accused of smuggling drugs through the USFK mail system to Korean authorities:
According to Newsis, prosecutors are upset that USFK won’t turn over a soldier accused of trying to mail himself pot through USFK’s mail system.
Prosecutors in Incheon got a warrant for the soldier/airman in Osan on Dec 31. USFK, however, isn’t turning the guy over.
The warrant’s good for only 10 days. If prosecutors don’t get their hands on the guy before the warrant expires, they won’t be able to put him into custody.
An official with the prosecution said they’ve contacted USFK and are taking the steps needed to put the alleged pothead in custody, but they are unable to execute the confinement right away due to SOFA regulations. [Marmot's Hole]
There is definitely more to this story because USFK is not going to comply with the SOFA whenever they feel like it. Especially since USFK has already handed over soldiers in the past year caught smuggling drugs through the mail. I am assuming the person they are trying to get turned over now is one of the people involved in the spice ring discussed in the prior link. The delay for the hand over could be for something as simple as the Korean authorities not having the proper paper work filed to complete the hand over. Apparently for the Korean media it is much better to play the big, bad SOFA angle once again than try to report what is really going on.
![[Valid RSS]](http://rokdrop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/valid-rss-rogers.png "Validate my RSS feed")
10:47 am on January 11th, 2013 1
I just read the Korean article and it doesn’t say anything about Spice – it only mentions marijuana.
What I’d like to know is – how do the Korean authorities arrest someone who hasn’t actually taken possession of the dope? In other words – if they find this package filled with dope at Inchon – can they arrest the person to whom it was addressed? It’s a safe bet that the guy knew he had a package of dope incoming. But unless he actually admits it – do you have enough evidence to bust the guy? And might this be the reason why USFK isn’t handing him over?
Presumably, since the cops know about this alleged Korean-American accomplice and are after him, they have been investigating this case and know the soldier has been dealing dope. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have even busted a few Koreans who got dope from the soldier, and those people told the cops they got the dope from the soldier.
But even if all that’s true – they haven’t caught the soldier in the act or with the goods.
4:52 pm on January 11th, 2013 2
What if he jilted a girl in America who knew someone to order pot from and she had it mailed to him without his knowledge?
Not likely; but without him receiving the package, maybe he didn’t commit a crime in Korea…
Some variation of that could be in play. Or maybe he looks like Obama’s son, if he had one…
5:05 pm on January 11th, 2013 3
When a Korean gets arrested for DWI do they attach words like alleged “alcoholic” as they did in this case with alleged “pothead?” Who’s alleging that he’s a “pothead” anyway?
7:45 pm on January 11th, 2013 4
Weed is cheap in America I could get a bunch of guys in trouble in this case. Just get their address throw the pot in the package and off it goes.
When illegal drugs comes into Korea they should let the drugs go through the system and get into the hands of the perp. Let the individual have a few days to report the crime and if he does then you arrest him.
However you can’t do that BEFORE it gets in his hand. If I’m thinking of buying weed you can’t arrest for that. You can only arrest me AFTER the crime has been committed.
10:51 pm on January 13th, 2013 5
Hmm there has to be more info about this. MPS is part of the US mail system, even if it’s entering another country. It doesn’t become Korean jurisdiction unless their selling / using it off base.
This just sounds like the Korean Media playing the “EVIL SOFA” card.
12:08 am on January 14th, 2013 6
someotherguy wrote:
Per the SOFA, all MPS mail coming into the country is subject to Korean Customs inspection. That’s why you have to affix a customs declaration when you send a package from the US to Korea through the MPS. So if they find it while it’s going through customs at Inchon – it falls under Korean jurisdiction.
2:03 am on January 14th, 2013 7
“Per the SOFA, all MPS mail coming into the country is subject to Korean Customs inspection.”
Correct, they can inspect the mail.
“So if they find it while it’s going through customs at Inchon – it falls under Korean jurisdiction.”
Incorrect its not inside Korea, yet.
It would be like Canada charging an American for attempted drug smuggling by catching him on the American side of the border. They have no jurisdiction until he steps over that line.
Two soldiers get into a fight on the base after duty hours, Korea can not charge them with assault even though their in Korea. Same soldiers get into a fight outside the gate after duty hours, Korea can charge them with assault.
MPS is an extension of the USPS, from origination to delivery the mail is legally considered inside the USA. It even has a US mail address complete with zip code. There is no excise tax paid nor any import duties collected. The customs form exists to inform the local nation what material is coming into their country, for the same reason US soldiers still present ID and fill out entry / exit paperwork when they arrive.
Now if that same soldier stepped outside the base and was trying to sell or use the drugs, then the Koreans can slam them for dealing. They could even slam him for smuggling it (going from inside the base to the local economy is exporting).
I know as an english teacher this might be hard to understand, but US bases are like giant international duty free zones. Jurisdiction is clearly laid out in the SOFA and in this case there is nothing for Korea to claim. Now if the Koreans can demonstrate that the soldier in question was dealing then he’ll be turned over like the spice folks were.
2:51 am on January 14th, 2013 8
In relation to my above post.
If (and this is a big if) the soldier kept their MJ on the base, then it’s handled the exact same way as a soldier breaking a law on the base. Theft, Arson, Rape, Murder, Possession of Illegal substance, it doesn’t matter the crime, as long as it’s committed on the base by service members, then it’s solidly in the jurisdiction of USFK.
6:39 am on January 14th, 2013 9
Here are the facts – according to the bible (AKA the SOFA):
http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/sofa.the.sofa.and.you.360
http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/Uploads/130/US-ROKStatusofForcesAgreement_1966-67.pdf
So, basically it says:
________________________________________________________________
1. Certain classes of mail (referring to packages) delivered through the US MPS are subject to customs examination by ROK customs officials.
–and–
2. United States armed forces shall render all assistance within their power to ensure that articles liable to seizure by, or on behalf of, the customs authorities of the of the ROKG are handed over to those authorities.
________________________________________________________________
So as I stated in a previous post – it is quite clear that a package of dope found in the MPS at Incheon falls under ROK jurisdiction.
5:57 pm on January 15th, 2013 10
Nice job twisting what it said to suite your own means.
“So as I stated in a previous post – it is quite clear that a package of dope found in the MPS at Incheon falls under ROK jurisdiction.”
I doesn’t say that at all. It merely says that the ROK gets to inspect mail and that the US Military will render all required assistance to ensure the ROK gets to inspect mail and confiscate contraband.
No where in there does it mention legal authority nor jurisdiction.
If Dove lotion was banned inside the ROK, yet service members shipped it from home to CP Cassey, that lotion may be confiscated yet the service member would not be charged with smuggling. If USFK had a policy prohibiting the same lotion then the soldier could be charged under the UCMJ.
You English teachers, paraphrase a policy off a website and think you actually know what it means.
6:30 pm on January 15th, 2013 11
someotherguy wrote:
So what you are saying is that any contraband (dope, porn vids, fire arms, mail bomb, etc.) found in MPS packages out at Inchon by ROK authorities – is confiscated by the ROKs – but the ROKs have no jurisdiction whatsoever over the matter?
7:05 pm on January 15th, 2013 12
@11,
Exactly.
The ROKs have no legal jurisdiction, they can not charge someone for smuggling for those items they’ve confiscated because that person hasn’t actually smuggled yet. The US Government / US Military on the other can (and do) prosecute someone.
Now if that service member steps foot outside the gate with the contraband on them, then the ROKs can charge them for smuggling. In this case the service member can actually be charged twice, once by UCMJ for smuggling it onto the base through MPS and again by the ROKs for smuggling it into Korea from the base.
I keep saying this yet you refuse to listen. Think of the Military Bases as pseudo-extensions of the USA. Anything happening on them falls under the jurisdiction of the US Government or it’s representatives. Anything happening outside of them does not (see Osan SP scandal) and falls under the jurisdiction of the local government. Special agreements are in place that outline what happens to local nationals on the base and US service members outside the base on duty.
Stop for a moment and think. One soldier rapes another soldier in a barracks room on the base, the ROK’s don’t get involved even though rape is illegal in South Korea. No different if a soldier consumes illegal substances on the base, no different if that same soldier smuggles those substances from the USA into the base. BIG difference if that soldier then takes those substances off the base into the local population. Look over every “USFK Drugs” scandal that the ROKs have been involved in, it always involved someone taking them off the base.
Best way to treat it is to see the base gates as international borders. The ROKs are allowed to inspect mail and document service members entering / leaving SK because to do so at every post gate would be extremely expensive and cumbersome.
Now for this service member, if they’ve been shipping it to themselves then I highly doubt they kept it on the base. There is most likely an investigation on going (may of already been concluded) and if they find evidence that it went off the base, you can guaranteed the ROK’s will be involved.
7:17 pm on January 15th, 2013 13
Here let me help your liberal English teacher mind a bit. I know it may be hard for your to stretch it and see things from a different perspective.
Service member is stationed in the ROK. Service member has pissed someone off back in their home town (or anywhere else in the USA for that matter). That person, knowing how strict SK drug law is, then mails a small quantity of MJ in an easily identifiable container to the service member.
If things worked the way you envisioned, service member would be thrown to the wolves that is the ROK justice system, all without due process, for smuggling drugs into the ROK. Thankfully it doesn’t work that way, service member would just have to explain to his chain of command why there was contraband found in the MPS for him. Investigation would go into seeing if he was using or selling it, and if that investigation came up clean then he would be off the hook, no matter what the host nation demanded. If that investigation had him using only in his on base quarters, then he would be tried by UCMJ and send to military prison. If it was found that he brought it outside the base, well then he’d be thrown to the wolves that are the ROK justice system.
7:24 pm on January 15th, 2013 14
Sorry for the multiple posts. Let me take this way out into looney land.
North Korean sympathizers in the USA decide to generate some anti-American feelings in South Korea. After using their contacts to obtain a list of APO mailboxes of service members assigned to USFK, including the box of some senior commanders, they sent small quantities of MJ through MPS to those individuals. They alert their people in SK on which names and anonymous tips are put it on who’s expected to receive bad boy packages.
Now according to your oncept, the USFK commander and much of his senior command staff are now on the hook for smuggling. Many service members are implicated and the Korean news talks about “illegal USFK drug smuggling ring”.
Yeah now we can see why the ROK’s have no jurisdiction in the matter. They can and do confiscate stuff (often newegg packages containing expensive computer equipment), but they can not charge the service members unless evidence is found that those service members were using / dealing outside the base.
7:25 pm on January 15th, 2013 15
Both of you need to look here.
Postal inspections are done like this:
” Korean customs inspections are conducted on a sample basis at United States military postal facilities in the presence of US military postal
personnel.”
Jurisdiction works like this:
” Unless an alleged offense falls within one of these exceptions, Korea has exclusive or primary jurisdiction even where the offense occurs on a military installation. The Korean prosecutor is made aware of all alleged offenses investigated by US authorities because the provost marshal is required to report all such incidents. ”
It seems that Korea has jurisdiction even for crimes on installation. Who knew?
http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/sofa.the.sofa.and.you.360
7:43 pm on January 15th, 2013 16
Receiving marijuana in the mail is not a crime but possessing it is, by American thinking. If you received marijuana and immediately reported it, there would be no crime. In the same situation, would Korea consider it a crime and want to prosecute?
Someotherguy, do Koreans really confiscate that expensive computer equipment with documentation or, as in my experience, is it stolen by the little postal mafia that gets busted ever few years?
8:23 pm on January 15th, 2013 17
@Hector
Jurisdiction works like this:
” Unless an alleged offense falls within one of these exceptions, Korea has exclusive or primary jurisdiction even where the offense occurs on a military installation. The Korean prosecutor is made aware of all alleged offenses investigated by US authorities because the provost marshal is required to report all such incidents. ”
It seems that Korea has jurisdiction even for crimes on installation. Who knew?
Now go read what those three exemptions are. Crimes between service members or between service members and the US Government / Military are one of those exemptions.
All that paragraph states is that crimes between Service Members and Korean Nationals can be handled by the Korean Justice system. A service member mailing themselves MJ would be a crime between the service member and the US Government / Military. Once they bring it off base it becomes a crime between them and the ROK. They would of committed two separate crimes, one by smuggling it onto the base and another by smuggling it off the base into the ROK.”
“Receiving marijuana in the mail is not a crime but possessing it is, by American thinking. If you received marijuana and immediately reported it, there would be no crime. In the same situation, would Korea consider it a crime and want to prosecute?”
Wouldn’t matter in either case. UCMJ is what is applied and possess / transport of illegal substances is severely punishable. Also receiving mail is not illegal regardless of what the Koreans think. Someone receiving MJ in the mail has not committed any crimes provided they report it to MPS. Seeing as the Koreans seized it before the soldier received it he can’t even be prosecuted for possession by the UCMJ.
“Someotherguy, do Koreans really confiscate that expensive computer equipment with documentation or, as in my experience, is it stolen by the little postal mafia that gets busted ever few years?”
Definitely the Koreans. It’s easy to tell when it’s from newegg, the stuff is registered mail with a tracking number. MPS stations have to log it by serial number and if someone “forgets” to log something it’s incredibly easy to track down. Korean custom officials are “monitored” at a long distance by a guy in another office, they basically have free reign to nab whatever the hell they want. They take that “provide assistance” part of the SOFA to an extreme level.
Korean customs officials are government officials and treated as such. Their pretty much immune to any investigation from the US side and like most of the Korean government their corrupt. As long as they don’t create a big scandal then nobody interferes with their black market operations.
10:08 pm on January 15th, 2013 18
3. tbonetylr – When a Korean gets arrested for DWI do they attach words like alleged “alcoholic” as they did in this case with alleged “pothead?” Who’s alleging that he’s a “pothead” anyway?
Very good point. The more successful dealers do not partake of their own product.
This illustrate the innate bias which has been artificially created toward a substance which is less harmful than, say, alcohol.
12:00 am on January 16th, 2013 19
Earlier today I talked to the Korean lawyer who works at the International Law Criminal Jurisdiction office (Bldg 4305 South Post). The salient points of our discussion were as follows:
me: If a soldier never actually receives a package of contraband seized by Korean Customs at Incheon, can the soldier still get into trouble?
lawyer: They must prove the soldier had a role in the matter. If the Korean authorities think they have a case, they can indict the soldier, and a joint investigation takes place.
me: So who has jurisdiction?
lawyer: The Koreans have primary jurisdiction. They can assert jurisdiction or they can release the case back to the Americans.
12:22 am on January 16th, 2013 20
I believe I’ve heard of previous cases where the Koreans allowed the package to be delivered and working with American authorities arrested the individual(s) once they accepted the package. That helps remove a lot of doubt. If I recall it was in Pyongtaek a few years ago.
2:13 am on January 16th, 2013 21
So USFK’s SOFA information website is right and Someotherguy is wrong?
2:29 am on January 16th, 2013 22
Hector Lopez wrote:
No no no . . . someotherguy is never wrong.
The problem is that the SOFA document itself, USFK’s SOFA website, and the legal expert at the International Law Criminal Jurisdiction office have ‘twisted’ things to ‘suite’ their own means.
Take it from the ‘twisted’ mind of a liberal English teacher – the only one who has a clue about any of this stuff is someotherguy.
How much you wanna bet he comes back here and says, “I doesn’t say that at all?”