ROK Drop

Avatar of Leon LaPorteBy on July 6th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

Asiana Airlines Flight 214 (ICN-SFO) Thread

Latest information:

Two people were killed when an Asiana Airlines flight crashed and skidded to a screeching halt while landing Saturday at San Francisco Airport, a source told the Daily News.

Another 61 people were reported by local media to have been injured, although scores of passengers miraculously walked off the crippled plane — and actually proceeded through customs.

Ten of the victims, including two children, were critically injured in the midday crash as terrified people waiting to board their flights watched helplessly.

The most seriously injured were taken to San Francisco General Hospital, said spokeswoman Rachael Kagan. According to CNN, 61 of the plane’s passengers were American.

A hospital spokesperson from San Francisco General told reporters that the 10 critically injured are all believed to be Korean speakers.

She said their injuries were extensive and included burns, fractures, and internal injuries, adding that their families would be brought to them from the flight. [NY Daily News]

Updates and comments in this thread.

Tags: , , ,
  • Baek, In-je
    5:33 pm on July 6th, 2013 1

    Just a wake up call for the rest of us not to take the Korean airlines…ever. Google KAL crashes and Asiana crashes. You’ll see a whole lot of death and badly injured passengers.
    Check my blog. I have called the crash causes there.

  • Jinro Dukkohbi
    5:43 pm on July 6th, 2013 2

    Early speculation says the rear landing gear hit against the seawall that is at the end of the runway, causing the plane to slam into the runway and do a belly slide, IAW – dude landed short. The main question, I’m sure, will be what caused it – pilot error, mechanical/technical error, or some strange weather phenomenon…

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    5:47 pm on July 6th, 2013 3

    2. Early speculation is almost always wrong.

    1. Seriously. Please compare the safety of KAL and Asiana to other major airlines.

  • Baek, In-je
    6:27 pm on July 6th, 2013 4

    Seriously what?

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    6:33 pm on July 6th, 2013 5

    According to Asiana is very safe.

  • Baek, In-je
    6:36 pm on July 6th, 2013 6

    Dude…ajosshis are flying them.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    6:59 pm on July 6th, 2013 7

    6. Oh, so it’s a racist thing? I’ve known many Korean men who were quite professional at their jobs. I’ve also been on a number of Asiana flights that had white pilots (unsure of nationality).

    CNN already has a doctor talking about PTSD. Is there anything PTSD can’t do!?!?

    Also, many off duty doctors, nurses, and social workers showed up to care for the passengers. Social workers? Was there some child abuse on board? Does someone need to apply for welfare? I wonder if any community organizers showed up.

  • John in LA
    7:03 pm on July 6th, 2013 8


    MANY American senior pilots who used to fly for US based airlines got hired by Asia based airlines, who are seeing exploding demand for pilots.

    Sad but relieved only 2 or 3 were killed. Looks like the dead might be flight attendants who were in the jump seats in the back of the plane…

  • Baek, In-je
    8:52 pm on July 6th, 2013 9

    So, it is racism? Ajosshis are generally incompetent at everything they do, but pointing it out is racism? Wow.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    9:13 pm on July 6th, 2013 10

    9. As I said, I’ve seen very competent Koreans and incompetent Americans. It is a Korean airline but we don’t know the racial makeup of the aircrew, so if the shoe fits… :razz:

  • tbonetylr
    9:20 pm on July 6th, 2013 11

    @ 8,

    As I already mentioned at the link below the pilots were not English speakers, the pilot(s) were “unintelligible” multiple times. They were probably speaking Korean when responding to San Francisco airport control tower. A recording has been released, don’t Korean pilots take English lessons? :roll:

    I was the first to report this plane accident early in the morning S. Korea time and included comments as information was being release…

  • tbonetylr
    9:22 pm on July 6th, 2013 12

    Chinese pilots are known to be unintelligible over American airspace too.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    9:33 pm on July 6th, 2013 13

    12. I thought you were talking about 100% incompetent adjjoshi’s? Make up you mind. Branching out?

    Some folks from Scotland are unintelligible in person. Besides, it won’t be long until the entire west coast is required to speak Chinese, right Tom? :roll:

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    9:38 pm on July 6th, 2013 14

    Members of South Korea’s Aviation and Railway Accident Investigation Board will travel to San Francisco, that agency said. They’ll be joined by a “go-to” team from the United States’ National Transportation Safety Board, led by chairwoman Deborah Hersman.

    I wonder if the chairwoman has been issued her rape whistle yet?

  • tbonetylr
    9:46 pm on July 6th, 2013 15

    The two dead are Chinese and their bodies were found outside the plane.

  • Blah
    10:43 pm on July 6th, 2013 16

    In the 90′s, I never would have flown KAL. But they’ve gotten better. I usually fly KAL, sometimes on a Delta ticket. By the way, Korean Air and Astana pilots are multi-national.

  • G.I. G.I. Joe
    11:02 pm on July 6th, 2013 17

    “I wonder if the chairwoman has been issued her rape whistle yet?”

    It’s not rape if they were drunk.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    11:03 pm on July 6th, 2013 18

    Also worth noting, the rule requiring individuals flying at government expense to use a US flagged carrier is a joke. I have never left Korea on a Delta or United aircraft, it is always a code share KAL or Asiana flight. That rule needs to be adjusted a bit. That said, I prefer Asiana to a Delta or United flight any day of the week. Newer planes, better service, etc…

    Regarding Asiana’s safety record: I count six ‘major incidents’ (including this one) with a cumulative total of 74 lives lost since 1993. I’d be willing to put those numbers up against any major carrier.

  • tbonetylr
    11:17 pm on July 6th, 2013 19


  • tbonetylr
    11:20 pm on July 6th, 2013 20

    Did you block me or what LaPorte?

    ‘Asiana jet crash further tarnishes Korean carrier’s safety record’

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    11:33 pm on July 6th, 2013 21

    20. No

    First, I do not have that capability.

    Second, you should know by know that I am anti-censorship for almost any reason. Hell, I’ve even defended Tom before. :lol:

    You were probably filter pwned. It happens to me sometimes and I have a hell of a time figuring out the offending trigger.

    I read your link and stand beside my previous statement as nothing in the article disputes my numbers. I’m not sure how Asiana’s safety record is “tarnished” unless an accident causes “tarnish,” in which case American, Delta, United, et al are also quite (more) “tarnished” over the same period.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    11:35 pm on July 6th, 2013 22

    BTW, I was on a United flight that had to do a return to airport and make an emergency landing in Houston four months ago. I guess there’s a bit of “tarnish” there…

  • Conway Eastwood
    4:07 am on July 7th, 2013 23

    I think they’d know better than to speak Korean to a bunch of ATC controllers in the USA. English is the main language used for international civil aviation, regardless of locale.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    4:14 am on July 7th, 2013 24

    Press Release
    Official Asiana Statement from OZ214 Incident Press Conference 2013-07-07 16:31
    We at Asiana Airlines would like express our utmost sympathy and regret for the distress experienced by the passengers of OZ flight 214 and their families as a result of this accident. We apologize most deeply.

    Asiana Airlines flight OZ214 departed Incheon International Airport on July 6, 2013 at 16:35 (Korea time) bound for San Francisco. On July 6, 2013 at 11:27 (Local time) an accident occurred as OZ214 landed on San Francisco International Airport’s runway 28.

    A total of 291 passengers were aboard the aircraft. (77 Koreans, 141 Chinese, 64 Americans, 3 Indians, 3 Canadians, 1 French, 1 Japanese and 1 Vietnamese)

    Asiana Airlines has established emergency response centers to ascertain the cause of this crash and to look after injured passengers and contact their families. Asiana continues to actively cooperate with all Korean and US governmental institutions in the ongoing investigation.

  • MAJ K
    4:21 am on July 7th, 2013 25

    I wonder how many of 64 Americans are USFK personnel or their family members on SOFA status. Any words from USFK PAO?

  • tbonetylr
    4:59 am on July 7th, 2013 26

    @ 24,
    What, no free round-trip flights in the future?

  • Tom
    5:45 am on July 7th, 2013 27

    I knew, even before I clicked on this thread, what the animal punks were going to say with their gloating. It’s not even surprising that they would even use these deaths for their own anti-Korean agendas. :roll:

  • Leo
    5:59 am on July 7th, 2013 28

    Leon ! It just hit me. That baek whatever the “it” is, Tom, tbonetylr are all same sick motherfu**ers. Whatever it is : it is a real psycho basket case.

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Darn… I knew it. This guy or whatever is a multiple personality.

  • tbonetylr
    6:10 am on July 7th, 2013 29

    Read comment # 40 on the second page(April 2012) of this thread, it’s that of a professional pilots rumor network site about KAL safety and expat pilots/Korean management. It’s from last year and there are 7 pages(June 2012). I read the first two pages and jumped to the 7th. One of the last comments suggest that expats cost of living wage increase was stolen.

  • tbonetylr
    6:18 am on July 7th, 2013 30

    Hey Leo, that link I provided is just for you(and LaPorte), others are certainly welcome to read it. Be sure to read comment #40 by Tex Johnson. I hope it’s not too long for you?

  • Liz
    6:31 am on July 7th, 2013 31

    #29: Damn, that was illuminating. And scary, if even half of it is true. But it seems like they’d have had far more crashes if they didn’t de-ice the plane, as described.

    (and the part about the radio license test is kind of pointless…no one should have to take a test or class to use the radio anyway. They might call it licensure, but it’s more like a tax. I don’t even think a test is required here, just write a check and there’s your license).

  • Tom
    6:46 am on July 7th, 2013 32


    Read the entire site. It’s a site made of losers who got fired by every airlines in the world, whining and moaning about all their employers around the world, with all their conspiracy theories and spreading of rumors. It’s why they call the site “Rumors and News”. And I’m sure a number of GI’s and ESL teachers have gone over there to put in their two cents. Right Tyler? :lol:

  • Leo
    6:51 am on July 7th, 2013 33

    #32, you are nuts. Are you talking to yourself? :lol:
    Baek, Tom, Tylr? Shitty names.

  • tbonetylr
    6:57 am on July 7th, 2013 34

    Yikes, I read page 3 on that thread and can recommend reading comment #50 but in another comment on the same page written in April 2012…”There was a very well know language company who walked away from a 5 million contract with KAL because they wouldn’t allow KAL to administer the language test. Their reputation was more important than the contract. KAL now administers the test and NO ONE fails. An acquaintance at KAL was telling me about when he was a safety pilot out of SFo-ICN. The captain had a level 5 on his license but after every ATC communication the F/O would respond in English and then translate to the captain in Korean. Not one word of English was spoken on the flight deck by the captain. Gentleman and ladies, they are in your airspace. The FAA knows of the problem and does nothing. Very political subject. Lose your life but don’t lose face.”

  • Fat White Monkey
    7:19 am on July 7th, 2013 35

    Sure Tbone, you knew an acquaintance at KAL. How it’s always convenient. :lol: Why stop there? You knew an acquaintance at the White House too. :lol:

    Why are you guys so happy with the deaths of two Chinese teen girls? This is how you find happiness? :roll:

  • John in NY
    7:47 am on July 7th, 2013 36

    I’m with Leon, I’d still prefer to travel using either of the Korean airlines than anything we have in the States. After swearing I’d never fly a certain domestic airline ever again, I’d run into the same poor quality of service in the next one and then the next and so forth. I just gave up after a while and accepted the poor quality as standard operations.

  • tbonetylr
    8:17 am on July 7th, 2013 37

    Fat White Monkey,
    “Sure Tbone, you knew an acquaintance at KAL. How it’s always convenient.”

    Why am I responding to you when you don’t understand English? Tell me how or why you think I ever said I “knew an acquaintance at KAL”? OTOH, I have tested/graded their Eng. during oral interviews. Needless to say I gave them low grades.

    Read comment # 120(everyone except ‘Fat White Monkey’ and ‘Leo’ for they would not understand).

  • Liz
    8:28 am on July 7th, 2013 38

    #18: “Regarding Asiana’s safety record: I count six ‘major incidents’ (including this one) with a cumulative total of 74 lives lost since 1993. I’d be willing to put those numbers up against any major carrier.”

    Southwest has had only one fatality in 42 years service (huge knock on wood).

  • Baek, In-je
    9:54 am on July 7th, 2013 39

    The Korean pilot did not want to follow the glide slope, and crashed the plane. That is so obvious. It will be found that the glide slope was working, but the Korean pilot will swear that it wasn’t. More lies.
    Most Korean pilots were ROK air force pilots. They take off at too steep an ascent and land at too deep an angle. This is a fact.
    People died and people were seriously injured because of the Korean pilot’s failure to follow the most basic of flight rules.
    When will people start listening to me and realize that I am telling the truth about Koreans?!

  • Theresa From California
    11:23 am on July 7th, 2013 40

    Ah… I want to be in the arms of the Korean man.. they are so handsome and sexy… :oops:

  • Theresa From California
    11:25 am on July 7th, 2013 41

    I would love to be done from behind by a sexy Korean man… oh yess.. oh yeah.. give it to me…

    12:15 pm on July 7th, 2013 42

    @Baek #39

    Can you define “too deep” an angle? What were the “basic of flight rules” in this case? What is the “glide slope” you are talking about? What makes you say that the Korean pilot “did not want to follow” the glide slope? What’s so “obvious”. Do you have the faintest clue what you are talking about? You know jack all and I am going to call you out on it.

    SFO is one of the airports with harder approaches as they are kept artificially high for noise reduction. For a stable approach profile, you must be 100% configured by 1,000′, and engines spooled to approach idle by 500′, or else you have to do a go-around.

    Modern airplanes are designed to be high lift, low drag, so it can be difficult to comply with the above requirements for a safe approach- to slow down, configure, and achieve that stable approach in time can be a struggle. The flight may have been behind the curve a bit.

    And the runway’s glide path, vertical guidance, was NOTAMed out. The crew was to use alternate means for the vertical portion of the approach. When you begin your flare in a 777, you are sitting about 15 stories up in the air. It’s possible the crew badly misjudged it and put the wheels short of the runway.

  • Tom
    1:48 pm on July 7th, 2013 43

    Baek doesn’t know what he’s talking about. :lol:

    The pilots probably made a mistake. But also note this article where it says the landing instruments at the airport weren’t functioning for weeks on end.

    It’s due to the heroics of the flight attendants who carried off the injured, and who were the last ones out of the plane that so many survived.

    The airport is simply crap American airport, typical of all American infrastructure that’s falling apart at the seams. The American roads and bridges are crumbing, and the airports are also death traps. For instance, the SF airport has had 556 accidents in the last five years, 4th worst in the world.

  • tbonetylr
    1:52 pm on July 7th, 2013 44

    @ 42 Chimo,
    I’m not a pilot but from your description of what happened and Baek’s, I come to the same common sense conclusion.
    “Mike Barr, a former military pilot and accident investigator who teaches aviation safety at the University of Southern California said “he could think of no reason why a plane would come in to land that low.”

    “National Transportation Safety Board chief Deborah Hersman said on Meet the Press that investigators are looking into what role the shutdown of a key navigational aid may have played in the crash. She said the glide slope — a ground-based aid that helps pilots stay on course while landing — had been shut down since June.
    She said pilots were sent a notice warning that the glide slope wasn’t available. Hersman told CBS’ “Face the Nation” that there were many other navigation tools available to help pilots land. She says investigators will be “taking a look at it all.”

  • tbonetylr
    2:13 pm on July 7th, 2013 45

    @ 43,
    Where is your source that says SFO has had “556 accidents in the past five years”?

    It was the first fatal commercial airline accident in the United States since a regional plane operated by Colgan Air crashed in New York in 2009.

  • Glans
    2:27 pm on July 7th, 2013 46

    Deborah Hersman, chairman of NTSB, says the plane was going less than the target speed during the approach. Perry Stein reports for TPM Live Wire.

  • Tom
    2:46 pm on July 7th, 2013 47

    Airports with landing instruments that don’t work.. :roll:

    I’ve flown once to SF airport, and it smelled of urine. The carpets in the dark hallways were torn and in ill repair. Horrible primitive airport.

  • MTB Rider
    3:01 pm on July 7th, 2013 48

    Do you ever get confused about your online personalities, Tom Baek? Forget who you are pretending to be and say something rude about Koreans as Tom, or slam on Americans as Baek? :roll:

    I remember the uber-troll “Pajerla” on Yahoo! message boards. You couldn’t miss his writing style. But one day, he messed up and posted under his real name. The feeding frenzy was awesome to behold!

    Matching trolls. Both so desperate for attention. Not getting any at home?

  • Denny
    3:20 pm on July 7th, 2013 49

    #25, most of the 64 American citizens were Korean Americans.

  • tbonetylr
    4:46 pm on July 7th, 2013 50

    @ 47,

    “Airports with landing instruments that don’t work”

    You obviously missed the part that said…”There are many other navigation tools available to help pilots land.”

    Pilots that only know how to use one landing instrument should not be pilots.

  • charliemarlow
    5:32 pm on July 7th, 2013 51

    Tom has won this one hands down.

  • MTB Rider
    6:45 pm on July 7th, 2013 52

    Hmm… Almost 10,000 hours flying, but new to the 777 class bird, with only 43 hours logged.

    I’ve been driving for decades, but I always hate driving a rental. You get used to your own vehicle, but learning a new one “on the fly” always leads to near misses for the first few days.

  • Notliz
    6:48 pm on July 7th, 2013 53

    Liz is great! Liz is the winner!

  • Liz
    6:49 pm on July 7th, 2013 54

    Aw, thanks.

  • Liz
    7:15 pm on July 7th, 2013 55

    #52: I don’t think there are any practice runs in a 777. Too expensive.
    First time they land “for real” it’s with passengers. Training happens in the sims.

  • John in LA
    9:04 pm on July 7th, 2013 56

    cnn forum is exploding with comments expressing indignation that a pilot with only 43 hours is allowed to land 777.

    such idiotic ‘news’ outlet and idiotic readers.

  • MTB Rider
    9:22 pm on July 7th, 2013 57

    That’s why I stressed the 10,000 hours in other birds, and from what I read, mostly 747s. I’m not a pilot, as I’m sure 99% of the posters offering their opinions over at CNN are not. Flying is one thing, landing is another, and learning the layout of a new flightdeck is a third.

    I wonder how many times he successfully landed at SFO before taking the 777 on a routine flight that ended up not routine…

  • LarryJ
    9:43 pm on July 7th, 2013 58

    Looks like the driver of one of the rescue vehicles will be investigated. From

    San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault said he was investigating whether one of the two teenage passengers killed Saturday actually survived the crash but was run over by a rescue vehicle rushing to aid victims fleeing the burning aircraft.

    Would be terrible to survive the plane crash only to be run over by an ambulance.

  • tbonetylr
    9:55 pm on July 7th, 2013 59

    @ 56,
    That’s because people died and more were seriously injured etc…
    It sounds crazy, the Asiana veteran pilot/crew is making the rookie take the fall. It’s not the rookies fault. The others should’ve been overlooking the rookie, what were they doing?

    So typical :roll:

    “Lee Kang-kook, Pilot Of Crashed Plane, Was Making His Maiden Flight To San Francisco (VIDEO/PHOTOS)”

  • John in LA
    9:57 pm on July 7th, 2013 60

    I read the Pilot landed in SFO with 747 numerous times in the past.

    One interesting thing I read was about the layout of buttons on 737 and 777. The pilot supposedly had most of his 10,000 hours in 737.

    On modern airlines, when a pilot is trying to do a go around (aborting landing), the pilot supposedly has to push a button to issue abort landing command to the computer, and then push throttle/stick/etc.

    Supposedly when 777 was designed, the abort-landing button was moved to a different location.

    It’s possible that the pilot, who spent most of his career so far in a 737, pushed the wrong button on 777 and didn’t actually issue a proper abort-landing command to the computer of 777.

    Very interested in finding out the full story.

  • John in LA
    10:00 pm on July 7th, 2013 61

    With 10,000 hours, I wouldn’t exactly call him a rookie…

  • ChickenHead
    10:06 pm on July 7th, 2013 62

    Korean pilots sure suck.
    His single kill was just luck.
    Skilled Americans manage
    the home court advantage
    and tie up the score with a truck.

  • Leon LaPorte
    10:29 pm on July 7th, 2013 63

    62. Guffaw! :roll: :lol:

  • tbonetylr
    11:30 pm on July 7th, 2013 64

    @ 59,
    “Asiana says pilot of crashed plane was in training”

    It sounds like Asiana is trying to blame just one pilot(the guy “in training”). Disgusting :!: Whether a rookie or “in training” they’re still pointing their finger at one guy or more importantly, not the older veteran. The veteran is just as responsible as anyone, if not more so. It appears Asiana is leaving one guy out to dry. All those monthly hwe-shiks(회식) didn’t help Lee Kang-kook now did they? Where is all that Korean Jeong (정,情) now?

  • Denny
    12:10 am on July 8th, 2013 65

    Another plane crash in America

    Plane Crash at Alaska Airport Kills All 10 on Board, AP Reports

  • LarryJ
    12:41 am on July 8th, 2013 66

    The movie Final Destination was on Korean tv yesterday, OCN, I think. No doubt many passengers on Asiana Flight 214 cheated death.

  • Liz
    5:30 am on July 8th, 2013 67

    #57: “That’s why I stressed the 10,000 hours in other birds, and from what I read, mostly 747s. I’m not a pilot, as I’m sure 99% of the posters offering their opinions over at CNN are not. Flying is one thing, landing is another, and learning the layout of a new flightdeck is a third. I wonder how many times he successfully landed at SFO before taking the 777 on a routine flight that ended up not routine”

    My husband is a pilot in a major airline (the safest on record). His first landing in that plane was with passengers.

    They’re all “new flightdecks” at first.

  • Tom
    5:57 am on July 8th, 2013 68

    So they killed that Chinese girl who survived with an ambulance? :roll:

  • guitard
    7:23 am on July 8th, 2013 69

    Actual footage of the crash:

  • tbonetylr
    8:11 am on July 8th, 2013 70

    Chosun Ilbo twist. I didn’t know that communication with air traffic control(ATC) means that a pilot is aware of a problem? Does there have to be a problem for a pilot to communicate with ATC? Plus, I must have missed CNN specifically reporting about the 5 minute problem prior to crash. Did anyone else get that report?
    “Did Pilot Call for Help?
    CNN reported that the pilot communicated with air traffic control at San Francisco five minutes before the crash and requested ambulances on standby. If that report is correct, that means the pilot was aware of a problem with the aircraft before the crash.”

  • Baek, In-je
    8:44 am on July 8th, 2013 71

    Too many trolls. But each are paid to do very different things.

    1.Good old Tom…Tom’s job is to pull your attention off the Korean screw up by going over the top, attacking US Troops and Americans as having the same level of incompetence in every thing they do, and take as many readers off topic as he can.

    2.Chimo now. Relatively new. He go right after whoever is attacking the Koreans or exposing the Koreans. He cuts and pastes from the internet in a way that makes it look like know something about the situation (see his first comment here where he is an expert pilot).

    3. John in NY became John in LA (same lame attempts to deflect viewers’ attention away from Koreans many unsightly embarrassments). His game is the good old “X problem happens in Y country, too…so it isn’t just the Koreans.

    These are agiprops…they are not on this site and numerous others all day for free. They are getting paid to attempt to make Korea look not so bad. Nice try, but if you’ve ever been in Korea, you know the real story.

  • Baek, In-je
    8:50 am on July 8th, 2013 72

    Then the pilot knew there would be a crash, yet refused to inform the passengers beforehand?!?! Typical Korean. I think I’d like to know that we were going to crash that we were going to crash. You’d kind of like to brace yourself for it…maybe smile at a loved one.
    Koreans have no compassion for other.

    P.S.- I am not one of the trolls on this forum. I post only as Baek, In-je, writer of the greatest expose Vlog on Korea ever. Ever.

  • Tom
    9:58 am on July 8th, 2013 73

    #72, you forgot to add

    4. Baek In-Je. Agitprop extraordinaire, the KKK klan member who has been a long time member of anti Korean ESL teacher’s organization, hired to bash Koreans on line, and praise the white American race as the supreme race.

    I leave this topic with this recent from a Canadian politician, which describes your kind perfectly.

    “If I say Americans are a bunch of big, obese, imbecilic, ignorant, uncultured dummies, it’s the truth,” he told the newspaper.

    “Of course it’s sure bet that out of 303 million Americans, there are maybe 50 million who aren’t like that. But, collectively, they’re still a bunch of uncultured imbeciles.”


  • John in LA
    10:59 am on July 8th, 2013 74

    No. The Asiana crew didn’t report any issue before the crash landing. The radio traffic is being misinterpreted by people. The Asiana crew definitely reported trouble only after the crash landing.

    No John in NY didn’t become John in LA. John in LA is the same old John in LA. Pls don’t get mixed up.

    The crew did NOT report any issue before the crash landing. The crew started reacting to avert accident seconds before the impact, which is not enough time to warn anyone. You would want the pilots to spend the few seconds to control the aircraft, not pick up a microphone, flip a switch and warn passengers.

    If the pilot had minutes to prepare for the accident, yeah they should’ve. But they had only seconds.

  • Denny
    2:21 pm on July 8th, 2013 75

    Nobody flies empty airplanes around anymore to qualify pilots in type. Anyone in aviation would know this.

  • charliemarlow
    3:53 pm on July 8th, 2013 76

    I heard Asiana said the trainer was responsible, not the trainee, which makes sense.

  • tbonetylr
    7:30 am on July 11th, 2013 77

    Asiana Airlines(Korea) don’t care about checking their pilots for drugs/alcohol. Eliminating drunk flying as a possible cause of pilot error crash should be the most important thing for any and all legit airline companies.
    NTSB: Asiana 214 pilots not tested for drugs, alcohol
    - See more at:

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    5:25 pm on July 11th, 2013 78

    Pilot experience starts at zero: Column
    Barry Schiff 5:57 p.m. EDT July 10, 2013
    Jetliner training begins with simulators until first flight. But travelers need not worry.

    If you’re shocked by the seeming inexperience of the pilot whose plane crashed in San Francisco Saturday, don’t be. His 43 hours handling the Boeing 777 shouldn’t, by itself, be anything to worry about.

    When you think about it, every commercial airline pilot effectively starts at zero hours of real flight experience in a given airplane. Given the high cost of airplane fuel these days, it’s not like a pilot can take a new high-powered jetliner out for a “spin” for practice. Fortunately for the airlines and the traveling public, there is nothing inherently dangerous about this.

    No official cause for the Asiana crash has been determined. But it’s worth understanding what goes into a commercial pilot’s training when a new aircraft is being added to a fleet.

    A captain first attends an intensive ground school to learn the new aircraft’s systems and performance. The pilot then transitions to a simulator in which he spends much time (typically 30-40 hours) learning to perform every maneuver and coping with virtually every emergency that is ever likely to challenge him in the real world.

    Modern simulators are so realistic that a new captain can take a flight test in one and be issued a license to fly the actual aircraft without ever having gotten off the ground.

    After this, a new captain is assigned his first flight and, yes, it is one loaded with unsuspecting passengers. If such passengers were to be informed of this, should it give them cause for alarm? Not at all. If I were a passenger on such a flight — and I have been — I would simply go to my seat and take a nap. The reason for having such trust is my knowledge that a captain new to an airplane is always accompanied by a very experienced instructor to serve as his co-pilot. That, at least, is the way it works with U.S. air carriers. A convincing argument can be made that such a flight is actually safer than a conventional flight with an experienced captain because instructor oversight allows no deviation whatsoever from established safety standards.

    In the case of the South Korean pilots, Asiana officials said the pilot, Lee Gang-guk, had more than 9,000 hours of experience in other jetliners, including the Boeing 737s and 747s. His co-pilot, on his first flight as an instructor, had more than 3,000 hours of experience flying on the 777, which they were flying on Saturday.

    But even experienced pilots sometime make errors. National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Deborah Hersman has said the Asiana 777 was flying “far below its target speed for landing.” If so, it was in violation of an assortment of standards.

    Airline pilots are trained to perform only what are called “stabilized approaches.” This means that when approaching a runway to land, it is mandatory that various performance factors be stabilized and not allowed to vary significantly when below 500 feet above the ground. Target airspeed on final approach must be established and stabilized; power required for the descent must be established and stabilized; the required rate of descent must be established and stabilized; and the airplane must be on the desired descent profile and stabilized.

    If any of these variables becomes unstabilized or allowed to vary significantly, the pilot is required to abandon the approach and begin anew. But according to the NTSB, the Asiana pilots didn’t try to abort the landing until seconds before the crash.

    The $64,000 question then becomes, why did neither pilot take assertive, corrective action earlier? This has become the great mystery of Flight 214, but whatever the answers turns out to be, inexperience isn’t likely to be high on the list.

  • leo
    5:37 pm on July 11th, 2013 79

    #72, Baek, are you in Korea? If so, I’d really like to meet with ya.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    5:40 pm on July 11th, 2013 80

    It’s a trap! :lol:

  • John in LA
    6:01 pm on July 11th, 2013 81

    Some pilots are blaming the ATC at SFO. Interesting story…

  • John in LA
    6:03 pm on July 11th, 2013 82

    Most on pilots’ forum state they cannot understand how the Asiana pilots could screw up so badly landing on a runway that’s adjacent to ocean, meaning no mountains/high terrain nearly, on a clear day. However jets apparently do land at SFO as if the runway was surrounded by high mountains, due to landing instructions given by air traffic controllers at SFO. Some pilots even called the approach instructions given by SFO based controllers as ‘stupid’.

    This circumstance coupled with a pilot relatively new to 777 seems to be cause of the accident… Will c.

    pprune . org/7935877-post1801 . html

    A German airline pilot who regularly lands at the airport and has asked to remain anonymous says he was not surprised by the accident, though. “A stabilized arrival in San Francisco has become practically impossible,” the pilot said in an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE. “It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.”

    An ‘Unstabilized Arrival’

    No one can say with certainty what the cause of the accident was. But what is known so far about the circumstances of the crash do fit the profile of an “unstabilized arrival,” the German pilot, a captain, told SPIEGEL ONLINE. The Boeing initially approached the runway at too high of an altitude and then began to decrease rapidly. The automatic landing system that is currently out of service would have warned the pilot earlier.

    Chaotic Circumstances

    Among his colleagues, the San Francisco International Airport has a particularly bad reputation. In addition to the electronic landing system being off, the pilots were often instructed by the air traffic controllers to approach the runway at an extremely steep rate of descent, he said. Presumably due to noise concerns, the aircraft were supposed to make their path of descent as short as possible, so that they would only be flying at low altitude for a brief period. “This rate of descent is often the maximum of what is allowed, and sometimes even higher,” the captain said.

    Adding to these stressors, the pilots must also land in quick succession. These chaotic circumstances are not without consequences. SPIEGEL ONLINE has learned that some three weeks ago, a Lufthansa Airbus had to abort a landing at the airport. Furthermore, Lufthansa statistics rank the San Francisco International Airport at the top of the list for aborted landings, which is why even before the Asiana crash landing, the German national carrier had implemented special safety instructions for ending flights there.

    Even without technical deficiencies, pilots consider the airport to be a challenge because of the onsite conditions. Legendary pilot Chesley Sullenberger, who successfully crash-landed an Airbus in New York’s Hudson River in 2009, has confirmed this in television interviews. The now-retired Sullenberger also said that descending over water makes optical assessment of altitude extremely difficult for pilots.

  • Baek, In-je
    9:27 pm on July 11th, 2013 83

    Why Leo? What did you have in mind?

  • Baek, In-je
    9:31 pm on July 11th, 2013 84

    Well, John troll in LA, stupid ATC instructions to land have been given and taken for decades without problems, so that doesn’t explain the three pilots not checking air speed and the red landing lights, and crashing the plane with death and many injuries, does it now you topic changing fool.

    9:40 pm on July 11th, 2013 85

  • leo
    9:42 pm on July 11th, 2013 86

    ;-) Baek you little prick, so, I can beat the crap out of you. You know what it’s like in Korea. Korean Police would love to see an arse hole like you get whipped in the ass like crazy. Even if anybody get caught you know your Korean Ajosshis would release perpetrator immediately upon looking at your ugly face. You watch out boy.

  • John in LA
    11:25 pm on July 11th, 2013 87

    Well there’s no point in trying to communicate with Baek but I found a shorter explanation on what role SFO’s ATC might have had in the incident. Of course the ultimate responsibility lies with the ‘captain’ of the jet.

    The issues are (my comments added):
    1. nonstandard ATC chatter (makes it harder for non-native English speaker)
    2. poor English skills
    3. a tired crew (it was 4am in Seoul at the time of the crash. And what kind of rest can you really get in a jet?)
    4. busy airspace
    5. a demanding descent profile (more than a foreign pilots who land at SFO called the instructions routinely given by SFO ATC as ‘stupid’)
    6. probable lapse of CRM (Asiana had the bad luck of having trainer pilot on his 1st flight as trainer and a trainee who captained Airbus A320 for many years before transitioning to 777. Both have many subtle/not-so-subtle differences).

    In fairness, when all is said and done, there may be more to this story than only what OZ does about this. Loss of situational awareness is certainly unacceptable, but nothing happens in a vacuum. Change any number of things in the sequence of events that day, and things may have turned out different.

    It bears repeating ad nauseum that pilots, no matter where they come from, know what they’re doing or they wouldn’t be in the job, especially with the regs and monitoring in any country. Pilots, Korean or otherwise, are not simply ‘just lucky’ the 99.9% of the time these events do not occur.

    More and more international pilots with international operators familiar with SFO are commenting on Norcal Approach’s habit of asking international arrivals to do a 180-5/6 onto the 28 visuals. Many have commented it is demanding to get properly stabilized when you’re crossing the bridge 6 out and still getting down in a hurry because ATC said so. I would take these concerns seriously – between nonstandard ATC chatter, poor English skills, a tired crew, busy airspace, a demanding descent profile, and probable lapse of CRM, we’ve already got plenty of holes lined up in the layers of swiss cheese, no?


    Almost all of the internet chatter by non-aviation and even aviation people sound shocked that a pilot can’t seemingly land a jet manually on a clear day.

    However, many pilots who fly 10+ hours before coming into land at SFO (yes specifically at SFO) are not so surprised that this happened.

    I somehow would give more weight to the opinion of pilots who actually do fly 10+ hours and try to land at an airport when their body clocks says it’s 3AM, and NOT the pilots who fly 3 or 5 hours before landing. And I would give even more weight to the pilots who actually DO fly into SFO after 10+ hours of flying.

  • John in LA
    11:28 pm on July 11th, 2013 88

    No matter what though, the Asiana pilots are responsible.

    The question is how do we prevent this?
    Pilot training obviously.

    And perhaps adjusting how SFO ATCs work?

  • Liz
    4:57 am on July 12th, 2013 89

    #87: PIlots fly long, weird hours all the time. Passenger plane pilots have it WAY easy compared to FedX and UPS pilots. Fedx and UPS pilots look 5-10 years older than their actual age, takes a toll. And those smaller commuter lines…forget it, the pilots sleep in the airport.

    Who knows what happened here, but according to my husband there’s nothing unusual about landing at SFO as compared to elsewhere and he has done it many times. There are far, far harder places to land around the globe with short runways between mountains, ect. And the pilots were very experienced. Whatever it is, I’m sure they’ll figure it out.

  • Liz
    5:08 am on July 12th, 2013 90

    Reading the other thread, I guess there might have been a light that blinded them. Sounds reasonable, can’t land blind.

  • John in NY
    6:10 am on July 12th, 2013 91

    I don’t know, I think the pilot just got into an accident.

  • Baek, In-je
    7:33 am on July 12th, 2013 92

    OK Leo, Listen up:
    “Baek you little prick…” Little pricks? That’s you guys. The Koreans. Everyone knows it. ^^
    “so, I can beat the crap out of you.” That won’t turn out like you expect. I have been in fights in Korea before. It’s like a gay dance scrapping with a Korean; lots of ass grabbing and grunting.
    “You know what it’s like in Korea.” Dirty streets, dirty people, and dirty little secrets that I expose? Yes, I know.
    “Korean Police would love to see an arse hole like you get whipped in the ass like crazy. Even if anybody get caught you know your Korean Ajosshis would release perpetrator immediately upon looking at your ugly face. You watch out boy.” This part just got super gay, so I am trying to forget you talking about playing with my arsehole. Oh! And I’m cute! All your women say so. Especially the KMILFs.

  • Baek, In-je
    7:36 am on July 12th, 2013 93

    Oh, the pilots were tired? Harden the f#$k up.

    “I don’t know, I think the pilot just got into an accident.”

    Thank you. For just being honest for once.

  • John in NY
    9:46 am on July 12th, 2013 94

    #93? Yeah, it’s pointing to what most of us assumed when we see a wreckage. Someone got into an accident. When we see an accident on the road we don’t wonder if the ABS system went on or the vehicle’s stability controls were manually turned off, etc, we simply say “Hmm, another accident, thanks for causing an hour delay idiot!”. Please understand my culture.

  • Baek, In-je
    5:14 pm on July 12th, 2013 95

    You admitted the fault was the pilot’s. And when in Korea, when we see an accident we say, “another dumb ass Korean who cannot drive crashed into another dumb ass Korean who cant drive.
    And it is not your culture. You had nothing to do whatsoever with developing my culture.

  • John in NY
    9:01 pm on July 12th, 2013 96

    From the start I assumed it’d be pilot error. You see, I’m not angry and make my life’s mission to grudge against some ajushi. That’s what bitches do. :grin:
    Please understand my culture you gyopo.

  • Leon LaPorte
    3:50 am on July 13th, 2013 97

    Entender mi cultura.
    Зрозуміти мої культури.
    Hiểu văn hóa của tôi.
    Konprann kilti m.
    Ymmärtää minun kulttuuria.
    Porozumět své kultury.
    להבין את התרבות שלי.
    Memahami budaya saya.
    Verstehen Sie meine Kultur.


  • ChickenHead
    4:55 am on July 13th, 2013 98

    Understanding culture is not the hard part… it is accepting it.

  • Glans
    7:43 am on July 13th, 2013 99

    Leon, ask Bobby Ray to help you distinguish infinitives from imperatives.

  • Bobby Ray
    7:56 am on July 13th, 2013 100

    Good heaven Glans why you always poking fun at me? Im about the last person who needs to be telling folks the difference tween infinitives and imperatives and such.

  • Glans
    12:28 pm on July 13th, 2013 101

    I ain’t poking no fun at you, Bobby Ray. I’m prodding you to spread your wings. You’ve shown that you understand classical electromagnetic theory. Now expand your skill set to grammar.

  • JoeC
    1:19 am on August 6th, 2013 102

    Now KAL has a landing mishap. :|

  • Joe
    2:47 am on January 16th, 2014 103

    Asiana victim who was run over may have been visible, videos suggest–video-suggests-172052396.html

  • Dr. Smith
    2:52 am on January 16th, 2014 104

  • ChickenHead
    2:56 am on January 16th, 2014 105

    What did they expect to happen at a Chinese fire drill?

  • tbonetylr
    7:59 am on January 16th, 2014 106

    Why don’t those F****** pilots just come out with it? They S*** so much they can’t tell it like it was, one or more will end up jumping off a cliff or S. Korean rooftop.

  • setnaffa
    9:14 am on January 16th, 2014 107

    tbone… *sigh*

    Does your mom know you use words like that in public?


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