ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on November 27th, 2013 at 8:52 am

Female Servicemembers In UK Military Awarded Large Compensation for Pelvic Injuries

Via a reader tip comes this news from the UK:

Three female RAF recruits have each been awarded £100,000 by the Ministry of Defence after suffering injuries caused by marching in step with their male colleagues.

The women claimed that parading alongside taller male recruits caused them to over-stride, a repetitive motion which, when repeated over several weeks, led them to develop spinal and pelvic injuries.

Now, after a five-year bitter legal battle, which saw the MoD accuse the women of exaggerating their symptoms, they have been awarded more compensation than soldiers who suffered serious gunshot wounds in Afghanistan……………………………..

Despite the fact that the women – aged 17, 22 and 23 at the time – were injured in the first nine weeks of their RAF training, they have been compensated for nine years of lost earnings and pension perks.

All have recovered and have successful careers outside the military……………………

Last night, former Defence Minister Gerald Howarth said: ‘This case is completely and utterly ridiculous – it belongs in the land of the absurd.

‘The defence budget is strapped and  we’re making 20,000 troops redundant, yet these former recruits are being paid six-figure sums.

‘The MoD must stand up to the compensation culture and get the wider public on its side. If the RAF has erred in its training procedures it is because of society’s obsession with gender equality.

‘Every pound they’ve been awarded should be clawed back by offsetting their compensation against future earnings.’  [Daily Mail]

You can read much more at the link, but this story reminds me some what of what female US Marine Capt Katie Petronio wrote about in regards to the pelvic and ovarian injuries she received during deployment as a combat engineer that ultimately led to infertility and other issues.  She felt that if women in combat arms have to meet the same standards as their male counterparts it will lead to injuries like what she received and thus shortened careers of high-talent female Marines.

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  • Smokes
    9:13 am on November 27th, 2013 1

    Shame on GI Korea. :x

    If it wasn’t for the anti-vagina/homo/whatever stories on here I’d definitely say `the Drop is awesome but as soon as I saw this mentioned in the Open Thread I knew you couldn’t resist putting this up as a main topic.

    You guys just need to come out and say how you’d all love the military to go back to being the all white male club it used to be where rights and respect have no place at work and we can all sit around in our underwear drinking on duty looking at Playboy calendars scratching our hairy stomachs and having burp contests enjoying “the good ol days”.

    So what these chicks scammed the system? I don’t see RokDrop running featurettes on the tens of thousands of fat-assed 40-something white male E-7′s/E-8′s/O-5′s/O-6′s getting their Profile Packets ready for retirement ensuring they’ve claimed so much horsesh*t that Joe Taxpayer’s funding the rest of their entire medical existance.

    This is very kind of sensationalism you complain that the Korean media partakes in regarding stories of crimes by GI’s in Korea.

  • setnaffa
    10:01 am on November 27th, 2013 2

    A Time for Thanksgiving

    Posted By Blackfive • [November 27, 2013]

    [This is a repost from 2005. It's still appropriate...Javier Alvarez is Someone You Should Know]

    Randy sends this email, a must read if ever there was one, that he received from Captain James Eadie today:


    A Time for Thanksgiving
    As Thanksgiving quickly approaches, I eagerly anticipate the plates of turkey and stuffing, the moments of camaraderie around the TV watching football and the sharing of stories amongst friends, but it is the soldiers’ stories of bravery and courage that should be shared on this day of Thanksgiving.

    I had the rare chance to talk in depth with one of my CCATT patients on our last flight, a young 24 year old Marine from Camp Pendleton, California. It is Javier’s story hangs with me this day. Javier gave me permission to share his story with you, a true story of heroism, and sacrifice that deserves to be told on Thanksgiving.

    On the morning of 16 November 2005, the Marines of 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment were taking part in operations along the Iraq-Syrian board to clear the towns of insurgents.

    Javier [Alvarez], a strong and sturdy looking square jawed Marine Corporal was on his third deployment to Iraq. He had seen heavy combat in his previous two deployments, and had been injured once before earning him a Purple Heart. On this day he was in command of a Squad of fourteen men. I knew just by talking to him that his men were fortunate to have him leading them into battle. He spoke with clarity and confidence of a man twice his age. In the truest essence, he was a Marine.

    On this morning Javier’s Squad was providing tank security (I still don’t fully understand how infantry provides security to tanks, but that’s why I am in medicine).

    The morning of the 16th started like many – early. The operation was going well. The Marines were taking some fire, but were successfully clearing the town they had been assigned. Urban warfare is extremely dangerous. Each house must be searched before it can be “cleared.” US and Iraqi Security Forces have taken heavy losses in past urban offenses such as Fallujah. Javier had no intention of letting that happen to his men today.

    As the tanks were rolling down the street they began taking heavier fire. The Squad broke into a brisk jog to keep up with the tanks as they pushed forward into the fire fight. Ahead was a house that seemed to be the focus of the fight. Lying in the doorway to the house was a downed Marine. He laid motionless spread across the sill. Further in there lay another Marine.

    The Platoon Sergeant grabbed Javier and told him to send his half of his Squad to the house to pull out the downed Marines. Normally, the Squad leader would stay back to coordinate the assault, but Javier told me ‘I could not send my men into harms way without me.”

    Taking point, Javier led his five man team towards the house. Shots rang out around them as they advanced. They could see the downed Marines ahead. A young Lieutenant lay face down outside the house. Javier did not know if he was still alive. They would have to act quickly if they were to save him and the others.

    As they approached the house the enemy fire intensified and Javier felt a sudden sting and burning in his right leg. He looked down at his leg. Damn, he thought, “I’ve been shot.” He indeed had taken two bullets to his thigh, but he pushed on.

    Undeterred, Javier continued to lead his men towards the house. With increasing fire, they took up a defensive posture against the house wall. Slightly protected there, he began tending his wounds with direct pressure as the others returned fire. He could see several downed Marines only arm lengths away, but they could not be reached safely. Gun fire continued to rain down on them. Another member of the squad was hit. They were in a bad position.

    What happened next was recalled to me by the Medic that they called Doc. During the barrage of fire, with their backs literally up against a wall an enemy grenade was thrown out of a window landing in the middle of the five men. Doc told me “It was amazing. I was applying pressure to one of the injured soldiers when someone yelled out GRENADE. Javier just dove at the grenade. I have never seen anything like it.”

    Javier grabbed the grenade with his right hand. He told me “I knew I only had three to five seconds before it would go off.” With his body shielding his men from the grenade, he made a valiant effort to heave the grenade away. As the grenade left his hand it exploded.

    Javier’s right hand was immediately amputated at the wrist. Shrapnel from the grenade penetrated his left thigh. Others in his group took shrapnel to their arms and legs, but no one lost their life.

    Doc told me on the plane that he was convinced that they all would have died if it were not for Javier’s heroic actions.

    The fighting continued. As more Marines approached the house to provide covering fire, Javier now with two gun shot wounds to his right leg, shrapnel to his left leg and an amputated right hand worked to get his injured men clear. With the aid of his Platoon Sergeant, Javier and his men walked out of the kill zone to the casualty collection point away from the fighting.

    Doc stayed in the fight for a while despite being hit with shrapnel from the grenade. He tended to the downed Marines and at one point crawled into the house to pull out the Marine who lay inside. Unfortunately, most of the Marines they came to help had been fatally injured. There was little that could be done. Doc continued to care for the downed soldiers until others noted his wounds. Doc was finally escorted out of the fight to attend to his injuries.

    In all told, Javier’s Squad took heavy injuries. We air lifted out 6 members who had sustained shrapnel injuries and one who lost his leg. Javier clearly took the brunt of the injuries, but miraculously no one lost their life. Javier’s selfless action had saved the lives of many men.

    I spoke at length with Javier on the flight to Germany. Perhaps it was the awe that I felt talking with him that kept me coming back, or maybe the fact that his men admired him so much. In the end, I think I was drawn in by him because he was just like you and me. He was real. A soldier who had done everything asked of him by his country. He fought with honor and dignity, and led his men with courage. Above all, he put his men’s life above his and protected them from harm.

    He didn’t ask for honors or special treatment. His biggest concern when we were loading him onto the plane was his fellow soldiers. He would not lie down until he had visualized and spoken with all of his troops on the plane.

    When I arrived home from the mission, I opened the paper. There before me in simple bullet format read the names of the most recent US deaths in Iraq. I generally do not look at these lists. They are just names with no personal connection. But this day, halfway down there were five Marines listed including a young Second Lieutenant all from the 2 nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment from Pendleton, California who had died on 16 November, 2005. These were the men that Javier and his Squad gave everything to try to save.

    I stared at the paper for many minutes, recalling the story Javier and his men had told me. I marveled at the sacrifices they made and felt a tremendous sense of loss for these men whose names now stood out from the paper as not mere records, but as living, breathing men who gave everything their country asked of them.

    As I get ready to celebrate Thanksgiving here in Iraq, I have so much to be thankful for. My wife is amazing, we have been blessed with a child on the way, and I feel like I have the greatest family and friends that one could ever wish for, but there is more. I see around me everyday soldiers giving everything they have with the full belief that their actions do make a difference. That their sacrifices are for freedom and will one day improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis.

    When I sit down on Thursday to my thanksgiving meal, I will be holding these soldiers and their families close. We as a country have so much to be thankful for.

    For me, on this Thanksgiving Day, I will be thankful for Javier. He has given the gift of life to his men and their families. I often ask myself if I was in his position, what would I have done? I don’t know, but I certainly hope that I could be like Javier.

    My warmest wishes to you all for a wonderful Thanksgiving, we truly have a great deal to be thankful for.

    Happy Thanksgiving,

    James S Eadie, Capt USAF MC

    332 Expeditionary Air Evacuation Squadron

    Balad, Iraq

    Critical Care Air Transport Physician


    The men who died that day were Lance Corporal Roger Deeds, Lance Corporal John Lucente, Corporal Jeffrey Rogers, Corporal Joshua Ware, and 2nd Lieutenant Donald McGlothin – all from the Battalion Landing Team, 2nd Battalion, 1st Regiment, 13th MEU, 1st Marine Division.

  • ChickenHead
    10:37 am on November 27th, 2013 3

    “You guys just need to come out and say how you’d all love the military to go back to being the all white male club it used to be where rights and respect have no place at work and we can all sit around in our underwear drinking on duty looking at Playboy calendars scratching our hairy stomachs and having burp contests enjoying “the good ol days”.”

    Would it help us start winning wars again?

  • setnaffa
    10:44 am on November 27th, 2013 4

    @3, yes. That’s why the ACLU will never let it happen.

  • 2ID Doc
    11:11 am on November 27th, 2013 5

    I’ll be labeled “pig” by everyone but so be it. If the females suffer reproductive injuries during their service, that’s the price you pay to play with the boys. Lots of men suffer reproductive injuries as well, and that is why a good friend of mine, a Vietnam vet has an adopted daughter from Korea. Injuries he suffered in Nam damaged him internally so he cannot reproduce, so he and his wife chose to adopt. I’ve never asked about compensation from either the military or VA, but I do know he retired from the Army Reserve after 20+ years as an E-8. As far as the UK ladies suffering injuries after 9 weeks, how many on here graduated from boot camp with everyone you started with? As I understand if someone spends less than 180 days as soldiers they are not eligible for any veteran’s benefits. Perhaps the Brits have different rules. In my platoon we lost 3 guys who were sent home due to injuries sustained in Basic or aggravation of existing injuries that received waivers. We gained 2 guys who were set back 2 weeks because of time spent in the hospital for their injuries. If anyone joins the military for the “easy life” they may want to see a mental health professional first.

  • Smokes
    12:27 pm on November 27th, 2013 6

    ChickenHead wrote: “Would it help us start winning wars again?”

    We’ve been losing? Last I saw the military’s done its job. What State does afterwards is on them so don’t place the failings of the suits at the embassy on the troops in the field.

  • setnaffa
    12:48 pm on November 27th, 2013 7

    @6, we “won” all the battles in Vietnam and lost in Congress… Now the same folks are in charge… Doesn’t take a PhD to finger out that tune… :-(

  • Liz
    12:52 pm on November 27th, 2013 8

    Elaine is anti-vagina.

  • Bob
    12:58 pm on November 27th, 2013 9

    “ChickenHead wrote: “Would it help us start winning wars again?”

    We’ve been losing? Last I saw the military’s done its job. What State does afterwards is on them so don’t place the failings of the suits at the embassy on the troops in the field.”

    Amen smokes. Same thing happened in Nam. The GI’s had all but WON the war and the politicians snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and RAN like the bunch of TRAITORS that they are!!

  • Flyingsword
    1:30 pm on November 27th, 2013 10

    Men and women are different….go back to your anatomy books it is easy to see….can we at least say men and women are different?

  • Smokes
    1:36 pm on November 27th, 2013 11

    Liz that brought back memories… note the Janitor from Scrubs playing the cop.

    Man I could watch every season of Seinfeld all over again…

    …wait a minute, holiday weekend… don’t like football…

    hmmm…. :cool:

  • JoeC
    2:13 pm on November 27th, 2013 12

    Next, the British courts will allow women to sue their employers for the damage caused by having to wear high heels at work … if they aren’t allowed to sue for that already.

  • Retired GI
    2:41 pm on November 27th, 2013 13

    Yes Flyingsword, we can say that women are different.

    ChickenHead asked a question. I will ask it a different way; would it help to go back to an all male Army? Which begs the question, What was wrong with the WACs?

    People are different. Women and men are different. Another question: What are the problems that occur when the two sexes work side by side? These problems exist. These problems only exist because men and women work in the same environment. The military environment is not the same as the civilian environment.

    Smokes can be dismissed. Her comment is obviously bait. But it is also evidence of what is wrong with women serving with men. Smokes and her reaction to a factual article is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with women serving with men.

    Women will never be equal to men as long as individuals like smokes and her attitude about women serving with men exist.

  • William
    5:12 pm on November 27th, 2013 14

    Many women are capable of doing the same job and should be afforded the opportunity to pursue that job. Heck, some MALES are incapable or culpably inefficient to do their job, so it isn’t exactly a one-sided affair.

    The problem I got with the military is that it created different standards for each gender (and age).

    Each job has its own unique physical and mental aspects to it and if someone isn’t fit, they shouldn’t be doing it. If being an infantry Soldiers requires one to be able to march 40-50 KM a day for 4 days straight while pulling guards at night and NOT demanding a hot shower on post, then everyone should be able to demonstrate that. The military should not allow Soldiers to be in job positions who clearly are incapable of performing them to standard. This should apply to both male and female members the same.

    In the military, we rely upon everyone to be generally capable of producing when it counts and when someone cannot produce, because they are physically incapable of it, they are slowing down missions, messing with time synchronizations, making others carry more of a burden, and jeopardizing lives.

    The military went WAY wrong when it went down the path of allowing those clearly not fit to be in those job positions. It made a grave mistake of creating separate weaker fitness standards. The military also made a grave mistake to allow Soldiers who were previously fit to do a job and now unfit to remain in it. How many PROFILES do we see form BOTH genders? Our USA laws on compensation are also sometimes right, often out of whack.

    Not every job position requires a Soldeir to be Iron-man fit. A Soldier who knows how to repair a laptop, maintain a truck, (that requires SOME strength) operate a Powerpoint Ranger station, do paperwork at S-1, Pimp the Army to others, weld equipment, perform maintenance management, and operate a sat dish are just some examples of job positions that anyone with proper skills and not a lot of fitness can do.

    Not every job position needs top fitness, actually MOST do not. Overall, Soldiers need to be minimally fit, because we are placed in situations often in deployment that require a small or large degree of fitness and toughness, both physical and mental.

    If the military determines that a Soldier should be able to do 40 push-ups, do 50 sit-ups, and run 2 miles in 16:30, then EVERY servicemember should be required to do them, EVERYBODY. That includes the new 18 yr old 112 lb female PVT, the 24 yr old male, the 35 yr old 160 lb female, AND the 44 yr old fat looking 225+ lb SFC male who couldn’t crack 18:00 on the 2MR event if he had a 50 MPH tailwind and a 2 minute headstart. I mean EVERYONE should be held to the same minimum fitness standards if the military determines EVERYONE should have minimum fitness standards.

    Where we all went wrong is that the military is all about firing someone when something goes majorly wrong. If we as a military enforced even current regulations on fitness and body fat, we would be losing 1/4 of our force. If that happened under current situation, then many commanders would be pre-emptively fired for poor leadership. Plus, even if the SR commanders did not fire each other, then the Army alone would be WAY under Congressionally mandated levels. So, some kind of balance happens to keep it that way.

    I have seen this through decades and it upsets me obviously, but it is what it is.

  • tom langley
    10:21 pm on November 27th, 2013 15

    Holy Smokes Smokes, what have you been smoking? The article talked about female soldiers who are parading around ended up getting more compensation that soldiers who suffered gunshot wounds in Afghanistan. Doesn’t that pi$$ you off. It pi$$es me off. The fact that some senior commissioned officers & some senior NCO’s scam the system with profiles or whatever is wrong but that is not what the article was about. You referenced being anti-homosexual & anti-vagina whatever the hades that means. I reread the article here on ROK Drop & read the full linked article from the Daily Mail & nothing was mentioned in the article at all about homosexuality or vaginas. The article did mention pelvic injuries so as Bill Clinton would say “close but no cigar”. My view on homosexuality is live & let live. I don’t care what anyone does in the privacy of their own home. If you don’t try to force your beliefs on me then I won’t try to force mine on you. As a happily married 59 year old male with 3 sons I can assure you that I am not, never have been, nor ever will be anti-vagina.

  • Smokes
    2:30 am on November 28th, 2013 16

    Tom (Langley that is) I’m never one to miss a chance to complain about someone scamming the tax payer, but as this was the British tax payers being scammed I wasn’t so pumped.

    However, seeing all the crying everyone does about “sensationalism and greedy isolationist Korean journalists” on here when the Korean media hypes a standard low level crime story that involves USFK personnel screaming “how could this happen, we must do something!” and then turn around and do pretty much the same thing by harping on these three women when an endless line of men have been using the profile system to bilk an incalcuable amount that would make the $300k these women scammed look like loose change discarded on the street just smacks of hypocrasy.

    My anti references are directed to the all-too-common occurances of stories on the `the Drop that stink of anti-woman/gay often seen used by people who can’t get it through their heads that the military is a public service open for anyone who can meet the standrd to join, not a private exclusive club.

  • Judge and Jury
    3:18 am on November 28th, 2013 17

    Spoken like a true contrarian; Smokes that is – no matter the topic. Just because he/she can, we suppose. Any time is the right time to toss in handy ‘anti-’ references, because, well, it keeps up with the all-too-common occurrences (check spelling)of topics that can be referred to as worthy of anti-commentary.

    Baiter and switcher ad infinitum… along with being a mediocre speller.

    Do not feed the troll.

    William, on the other hand, would like everyone to just work equally hard and get along with each other. Of course that works right about up until one sex or the other can identify some topic of discrimination amongst all the ‘equal-ness’ and harmony. And then it becomes a challenge for even the most equitably-minded individuals to solve, thus becoming a purely subjective decision, e.g. ‘I am being treated unfairly because my sexual identity as (either one or the other, hopefully) a man/woman prevented/forced/enabled/restricted/caused…yadayada whatever’. And then we have rulings such as the British Ministry of Defense.

    Notice, Smokes, there was no all-too-common reference to hating homosexuality or feminine reproductive organs.

  • Smokes
    3:33 am on November 28th, 2013 18

    Did you get lost on your way to the Marmot’s Hole?

    By the way smarmmy boy don’t think I didn’t notice that lame self-pluralization “we suppose”. Who the F is “we”? It’s just you, retahd.

    Not sure how you managed to squeeze in some time between poly-sci and your weekly Korean lesson for scamming local girls at the Holly’s in Itaewon to post that puke but fat turdy college boys like youself need to be reminded every so often that the only reason you slimy E2′s can even come over here is because of people who served like myself who could give a rat’s a55 about spellchecking.

    Don’t presume to speak for or about any `Droppers because you certainly aren’t any fixture here. Just another tourist who’ll be gone by the time the snow melts.

    Here’s a tissue, you seem to be bleeding out of your rectum.

  • Judge and Jury
    4:40 am on November 28th, 2013 19

    Predictable. There certainly is a majority of folks who believe you are a flamer.

  • Smokes
    5:17 am on November 28th, 2013 20

    That certainly registers on my Care-O-Meter©, see?:

    For reference it registered slightly higher than my caring about the corn count of my last deuce.

  • Smokes
    5:19 am on November 28th, 2013 21

    Guess WordPress didn’t like the brackets…

    Final attempt:

  • Retired GI
    6:30 am on November 28th, 2013 22

    Now I see: Smokes is a gay Female. Makes sense now. They usually are a bit militant these days.

  • Smokes
    10:05 am on November 28th, 2013 23

    Holy gods… don’t do an image search for “gay female smoker”. :shock:

    Trust me on this one…. yesshh.. :oops:

  • ChickenHead
    10:41 am on November 28th, 2013 24

    ChickenHead wrote: “Would it help us start winning wars again?”

    Blaming the military for losing wars instead of the politicians is understandably not a popular position around here…

    …but let’s look a little deeper and see if it is a reasonable position.

    It does seem the grunts are well-equipped and better trained than the enemy… and they are tactically superior in direct battle… so why has a decade of warfare on two fronts failed to produce any sort of victory?

    Can politicians be blamed? Sure. But the problem starts with the military and its eager promotion of liberal-pleasing social agendas over victorious strategic military agendas.

    Let’s go back to the last war we won… WWII.

    The generals drew up plans for victory and presented them to the president. The discussions were about firebombing Dresden or nuking Hiroshima. During an ongoing war, if the president had changed the topic and focus, privately or publicly, from how to achieve victory to why gay Hispanic women were underrepresented in the military, there would have been an incident.

    Americans currently know more about women and gay problems in the military than what the plan for victory in Afghanistan is… or even what would constitute a victory.

    So, the generals were focused on victory and they kept the president focused on victory. They set goals, made plans to achieve them, pushed them to the president, and carried them out when given approval. They cared about victory… even to the point of sacrificing their careers (right or wrong) rather than giving in to what they considered to be political policies designed to fail.

    That was when we won wars.

    The last modern general to sacrifice his career for his beliefs did so drunkenly while whining in the presence of a reporter… and then backtracked and publicly stated his belief in the official (obviously-failing) strategy and the competence of (clearly-incompetent) civilian leadership before skipping off to a lucrative post-military career.

    I propose that all current generals built their careers in an environment that increasingly became focused on worrying about special interests, left-leaning media perceptions, and other non-victory-essential concerns… and then progressed to even more worry over programs offering special treatment for special groups and then trying to nullify unintended consequences in a self-created, self-polluting zero-tolerance circle-jerking environment that whirlpooled the biggest circle-jerkers to the top.

    This took effort away from top-level strategic considerations on how to win wars… and it rewarded those who championed social programs over military programs… pushing the most politically-correct politicians rather than the straight-talking victory-minded leaders up the ranks.

    Self-absorbed sycophants specializing in media-pleasing social and political strategy rather than honest leaders with a mastery of theater-size military strategy have floated to the top… where, even without vanity and careerism, they lack the will to push the necessities of victory upon increasingly-incompetent and increasingly-military-loathing civilian leadership… and, even though they know failure is the only outcome of the officially-adopted strategy, they never become vocal with their knowledge… as they will be quickly replaced and be greatly downgraded in expectations for a post-military career.

    Will an all-male military holding burp contests in their underwear and reading Playboys while cracking women and gay jokes make a more victorious military? It is hard to know (though that culture works for special forces).

    What it will do is create a straightforward man-to-man leadership culture that does not have a survival instinct based on sidetracking social distractions, considerations of tolerance for even intolerable things, and diversity that divides focus and purpose.

    The military can “do their job” and win a battle… but their job is also to win wars and they are NOT doing this job. “Expert” military leadership is allowing amateur civilian leadership to implement strategy they KNOW will fail and damage America. Due to careerism, the desire to push social agendas, or whatever semi-traitorous reason, military leadership is not standing up to damaging incompetence with any of the ways available… from very publicly resigning to secretly leaking.

    This, and much more detail I have no time to type, is why I asked that question.

    Agree? Disagree?

    Or will Tom get more replies with some “hairy white monkey like scratching their stomachs” comment.

  • Smokes
    11:19 am on November 28th, 2013 25

    While I’m all for more gay Hispanic women in the military, I think… huh?

    I disagree with your statement that the military is somehow at fault for not being able to achieve an invisible standard of victory that’s ultimately State’s job to define. The military does what State authorizes them to do.

    How did the military not do its job in Iraq?
    Get rid of Saddam and his Army? Done, actually was done back in Gulf 1 when they so royally embarrased the Iraqi military to the point where the plan was basically:

    “Uhh yeah look, we ain’t getting trounced like that again; so if the Americans come back, hide your uniforms and wear these man dresses for like a year, then we’re so going guerilla on them!”

    Hold the fort while State works the suit’N'tie magic and helps to reestablish the government and military here? Done and mother-f’ig-done, done all while sectarian beehives were everywhere, and done while idiot private security firms like BlackWater were making a mess, and done while Iran was field testing their evilness by smuggling EFP’s into Iraq.

    WTF CH? Forget spiking the ball, how the h3ll can the military even score when the end zone keeps getting moved back? All because everyone’s so scared to have another “Mission Accomplished” moment? Stupid and cowardly on the part of politicans.

    What was victory in Iraq?
    What is victory in Afghanistan?

    These are not questions for the military to answer, it’s solely on POTUS with DOS guidance to determine that. DOD just needs to explain what it’s going to take to achieve victory as defined from above.

  • Retired GI
    7:00 pm on November 28th, 2013 26

    Of course I agree with your last comment ChickenHead. Duh…

  • William
    7:59 pm on November 28th, 2013 27

    Chickenhead is earning more respect.


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