ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on December 11th, 2013 at 5:47 am

Officials In Uijongbu and Dongducheon Unhappy with 2ID Residual Force Proposal

» by in: USFK

The USFK relocation plan to move 2ID to Camp Humphreys is something that officials in Uijongbu and Dongducheon have long planned for so I can understand why they are upset with the proposed plan to leave 2ID in place now:

Dongducheon residents and members of the Dongucheon City Council protest the possible long-term presence of U.S. soldiers in their city Monday, Dec. 2, 2013, in front of the Ministry of National Defense headquarters in Seoul. U.S. Forces Korea commander Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti said last week that the U.S. and South Korea are discussing the possibility of establishing a combined division and leaving “residual” U.S. forces in Area I after the relocation of most U.S. troops to installations south of the capital.
Lim Sang-O/Special to Stars and Stripes

Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti also told a Nov. 25 news conference that a combined U.S.-South Korean division near the border was a “strong possibility” as “a strong additive to our alliance.” He said both issues were under consideration, but no decisions had been made.

“It is a sensitive issue, but we will work our way through it and do what is best for Korea and what is best for the defense of Korea,” he said.

His comments have sparked a backlash from city officials in Dongducheon and Uijeongbu, home to installations that include Camp Casey and Camp Red Cloud. They fear USFK may not vacate the bases and return them to South Korean control when the bulk of U.S. forces north of Seoul relocate to regional hubs south of the capital.

On Tuesday, members of the Dongducheon City Council delivered a letter to the U.S. Embassy that asks the U.S. to move the 2nd Infantry Division to Pyeongtaek, home to the future USFK flagship installation, Camp Humphreys, as planned.

The letter, addressed to President Barack Obama, said that although Dongducheon has had a closer relationship with U.S. soldiers than anywhere else in the peninsula, keeping American forces there will disrupt plans to develop land now occupied by U.S. bases.  [Stars & Stripes]

You can read more at the link.

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  • 2ID Doc
    6:00 am on December 11th, 2013 1

    This is the 1980s golf course controversy all over again. Seoul businessmen had already made plans for the Yongsan golf course, to turn it into an exclusive golf club and when 8th Army pushed back the timetable to turn over the course, you would have thought 8th Army was murdering babies. 8th Army was taking away “their” golf course and putting those guys straight into the poor house. I understand the same guys were also making sure 8th Army didn’t “ruin” the course before turning it over. I left before that was resolved so I really don’t know how it ended or really care since I don’t play golf.

  • Judge and Jury
    6:24 am on December 11th, 2013 2

    All kinds of inner prompting going on here. Civic organizations put up to these demonstrations are not truly what they appear to be. Here in the land of false fronts, fabrications and bluffs, this is nothing more than a group of idle, useful idiots being paid to stand in the street. Those who move the money and make the deals have already taken the seed money for the move to P’tek and are making the moves to accommodate a few less acres for their TDC golf course.
    Not to mention the vast majority of citizens will sure as heck wish there were a few more Bradleys and Abrams if they ever come down this way – not likely, but just a comment on how a minority staging can start the rabble to rousing.

  • Larry Anderson
    8:02 am on December 11th, 2013 3

    History repeats so better learn some historyl. Korea has never been free and independent, has always cow towed to the power surrounding and predominate, China, Korea, Russia. So now the US and UN forces has maintaiend their freedoms and they have soared in power and ecconomy. Perhaps it is time for the US to withdraw and let them feel the reprocussions. China is itching for taking all of Korea, already has announced war plans this past year so maybe the strategy is again appeasement and surrender to the power left. There are two powers in the Pacific, CHOOSE, China or US, same with every nation of the Asian community and beyond. As in 1905 Japan following their wipe out of Russia and the 1894 conquest of China, the two powers remaining ended up in war for control of the Pacific. If anyone doubts the ambition of China they are sorely mistaken, we as Americans must choose rather to waste our resources on such a nation which has grown tired of us, let there be a vote, if the people vote to oust the US Forces, let us get out, China will be most grateful and encouraged. China has it’s eyes on all of Padific, taking the Philippines will guarentee dominance and open base to the entire Pacific all the way to Australia and thence, Hawaii. Will we once again be called upon to defend the Pacific, and with the US out of Filippines and irratation in Japan, Korea, etc. there is a clear passage and messge for China to grab all it can now. There is no going back, war is imminent with China, and Russia had best watch it’s ally as well, same as Germany in WWII, it will turn!

  • tbonetylr
    9:23 am on December 11th, 2013 4

    “residual” U.S. forces”

    Move em OUTTA there ASAP Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti :roll:

  • setnaffa
    9:33 am on December 11th, 2013 5

    I think a lot of hatred of Koreans is being very poorly surpressed here…

    This type of protest is funded by Pyongyang or their useful idiots. Best to ignore them.

    I mean, it’s not just leftist Americans who like to protest you know…

  • guitard
    10:42 am on December 11th, 2013 6

    Larry Anderson wrote:

    let there be a vote, if the people vote to oust the US Forces, let us get out

    The leftist groups scream “Yankee go home!” so to the uninformed, it looks like the Koreans want USFK to leave. Opinion polls, however, show a majority want USFK to stay.

  • Retired GI
    1:26 pm on December 11th, 2013 7

    I don’t believe the polls. I’m sure they are a complete Fiction.

    After 9 years in Korea, from 88 through 2003, I never knew a Korean that want the US to stay.
    I traveled far and wide in those years. So I’m kinda “informed” on the subject.

    Your average Korean, under the age of 50 years, wants America to leave and do it soon. Like yesterday.

    I’m sure the Korean Government wants us to stay. Hell yeah the “government” wants us to stay. But that is a money issue. Nothing more.

    I and 90% of the Korean population want America to leave ASAP. If the reason for not leaving is that China will take over, then I and 90% of the Korean Population are fine with that. ( I know what that means. They do not.) To all things there is an end. The end of America in Korea is overdue. It should have happened in the mid 90s.

    America needs to get out of Korea for the sake of Korea. It will not mature as a country until it has to stand on its own. America is Robbing Korea of that ability.

  • guitard
    2:50 pm on December 11th, 2013 8

    Retired GI wrote:

    After 9 years in Korea, from 88 through 2003, I never knew a Korean that want the US to stay. I traveled far and wide in those years. So I’m kinda “informed” on the subject.

    I was in Korea long before you ever got there – and was here long after you left. I’m lucky because traveling all over the country is part of my job, and I’m on the road a week or two every month. After all these years, I’ve gotten to the point where I can speak Korean without an accent.

    My only regret is that DTS has taken a lot of the fun out of going TDY . . . but that’s a story for a different post.

    Your average Korean, under the age of 50 years, wants America to leave and do it soon. Like yesterday.

    I and 90% of the Korean population want America to leave ASAP.

    I never knew a Korean that want the US to stay.

    So if I follow you correctly . . . the only Koreans who want USFK to stay are over the age of 50 . . . apparently they only comprise 10% of the Korean population . . . but it’s hard to say for sure, because despite having traveled far and wide, you’ve never met one.

    Are you sure that such a Korean even exists?

  • jim
    4:20 pm on December 11th, 2013 9

    because all those dozens of other american bases vacated years ago have all been developed already? yeah.

  • Leon LaPorte
    4:32 pm on December 11th, 2013 10

    Seems to me it would be the Korean national government’s responsibility to consult with these city governments, not the US military. So if Dongducheon and Uijongbu officials are “very sorry” they were not consulted, they need to take the issue up with their elected representatives.

  • Judge and Jury
    10:31 pm on December 11th, 2013 11

    Let’s go over some facts, shall we?
    1. The 2ID ‘staying in place’ is a bit of a mis-representation. This trite phrase offered by the OP in his initial comment above, suggests that the 2ID will not move at all, implying all of its subordinate elements, and in all of their respective locations. This is not the plan, nor will it be the circumstance. At least two combined arms elements, the 2-9 Infantry and the 1/72 Armor will relocate to Camp Humphreys from Camp Casey. This is not a plan which ‘leaves 2ID in place’. Exactly how the facilities occupied by these two tactical units will be used in their absence is not part of my knowledge. But I know they have the lion’s share of combat power for the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division. This is one of the primary reasons why the picture of the angry citizens is misleading.
    2. The 8th Army Non-Commissioned Officer Academy and Katusa Orientation Program at Camp Jackson are moving to Camp Humphreys. This also is not a renege on a plan to move and vacate property.
    3. With regard to former U.S. bases being turned over years ago and being developed (re: post #9), the Uijeongbu enclave is living proof that such development has, is, and will continue to be part of the negotiations between USFK and city (re: post# 10), county, and national S. Korean authorities. The issue of reutilization and re-purposing former USFK military property IS being conducted between all these parties, and to suggest otherwise is false.
    4. Specifically, in Uijeongbu these former U.S. bases are now reclaimed and being rebuilt: Camp Roberts = Gyonggi Province Regional Police Headquarters, and the soon-to-be-built Uijeongbu Courthouse and Judicial Facility; Camp Essayons = Uijeongbu Medical Institute and Internship Hospital is now an established structure with a full-scale construction effort underway; Camp Falling Water = Uijeongbu City Park and Citizens’ Performance Center is being gradually developed from a parking lot; Camp Kyle = Uijeongbu Citizens’ Family Park is a planned park that, although Camp Kyle has been cleared and leveled, the plot remains dormant while city officials monitor the city’s tax base, which will provide the majority of the funding for the project; Camp LaGuardia = this former base has been cleared of structures and does not have any development ongoing at this time, but a local urban overhead rail line has been installed that passes over much of LaGuardia and does get plenty of citizen usage; Camps Kyle and Roberts are also having portions of their areas converted to a major thoroughfare that will encircle Mt. Chun-bo and connect the route north to Pochon over to the route north to Dongduchun.

    Obviously, these developments have taken years to come about. All parties involved want their priorities on or near the top. Negotiations have been very successful (sure, there are probably some who did not get exactly what they wanted) as evidenced by the Uijeongbu enclave alone.

    Anyone posting here who makes grandiose claims regarding the adamant desire of younger Koreans (sic) for the USFK to ‘get out’ is misinformed and has bitten into the propaganda of all-too-familiar anti U.S. sentiment fruit. The reality of the defense of South Korea, beginning at the northern national border, is that sheer numbers of enemy forces must be countered by either equal strength-in-kind forces, or a suitable force of less-than-equal numbers capable of defeating overwhelming numbers. Once a person can understand this circumstance, it becomes clear that ANY force remaining in the TDC region must have these capabilities. As the South Korean military, and ROK Army in particular, have gained technology and expertise over the years (thanks to the U.S. and United Nations oversight and command and $$), their ability to assume command and control while conducting full wartime operations has dramatically increased. For those who are not aware, the combined training of ROK-US forces has deepened into nearly every aspect of combat, combat support and combat service support functional areas, from aviation, medical support, CBRN activities, public affairs, to intelligence, transportation, logistics, communications, let alone combat arms. So, it is not outrageous or anything to be upset over regarding a combined force ROK-US division remaining in place in the Area I region.

    This particular issue regarding a renege of proposed movement south is a non-issue. The proposed, and very likely to be established combined division, is not a complete cancellation of the 2nd Infantry Division’s planned move. Ignorance is bliss when one can just step and holler injustice while being blissfully blind to the true facts.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    5:36 am on December 12th, 2013 12

    @11- You are making a false argument. The title of the post says residual force, the article discusses the residual force, and the fact 2ID has been planning to leave a residual force has been discussed on here for a long time. The issue these people have is that Camp Casey, Stanley, and Red Cloud may not close as what was originally planned if this combined division idea happens that would leave the residual 2ID force in place. Both the local governments of Uijongbu and Dongducheon want to shed their “gijichon” past and create new images for their cities which leaving the residual force in place will make harder for them to do.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    5:40 am on December 12th, 2013 13

    12. I guess they should be talking to their fellow citizens in Seoul then. It’s nation to nation, not city to (foreign) nation.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    6:27 am on December 12th, 2013 14

    @13- They know the ROK government does not want 2ID to completely pull out of Area 1 for a variety of reasons. Thus trying to get USFK to back away from the combined division idea from their perspective probably seems like the best way to proceed. Plus they are showing their citizens they are ‘doing something’.

    It has been pretty clear for sometime Camp Casey would not close but it will be interesting to see if this combined division idea will leave CRC and Stanley open?

  • Judge and Jury
    7:03 am on December 12th, 2013 15

    #12-
    I admit that I was not aware that a plan calling for Camps Casey, Stanley, and Red Cloud had apparently been offered and agreed upon with officials from these cities.

    Agree that gijichon reputations are ugly, but Uijeongbu has cleaned up the ‘ville outside the gates of CRC, and TDC has significantly tightened the law enforcement grip on Casey’s ‘ville. Stanley still has a ‘ville, but the luster and limelight, along with the crime, has worn down. All of these communities can be argued to have gotten what they asked for, by not only soliciting business to bilk GI’s, but to also pander to the seedy side of entertainment visas and blatant prostitution, both of which attract GI’s.

    I stand by my position that even a residual force remaining at these three camps does not warrant the reaction. As I mentioned, the closed camp projects that are underway as well as planned indicate that some, perhaps not all, are on the chopping (moving and reclaiming) block.

  • guitard
    8:39 am on December 12th, 2013 16

    Judge and Jury wrote:

    Uijeongbu has cleaned up the ‘ville outside the gates of CRC

    There hasn’t been anything that even remotely resembles a GI ville outside the main gate of CRC for more than 15 years. There are still one or two clubs, but they are mainly just for the old-timer retired/contractor guys and are very low-key (read: dead 98% of the time). Downtown Uijeongbu has been given a complete makeover in the last several years and now looks a lot like Seoul. Young GIs mix with the young Koreans in the downtown area and they generally get along just fine.

    Bottom Line: Uijeongbu shed its gijichon image a long time ago.

  • Retired GI
    9:15 am on December 12th, 2013 17

    “Are you sure that such a Korean even exists?”

    They existed during MY nine years Guitard. What about your phantom “polls”?

    Now, back to the subject. Koreans what America to leave their country. American Military that is. American Tourist are always welcome.

    Simple enough to understand for you? Oh and I’m pleased that you are fluent in Hangeul. I still struggle with English on most days.

  • guitard
    9:59 am on December 12th, 2013 18

    “Are you sure that such a Korean even exists?”

    They existed during MY nine years Guitard.

    They did?? That’s funny . . . because in your first post you said:

    I never knew a Korean that want the US to stay.

    I guess that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist though . . . only that during your nine years of traveling far and wide . . . you somehow managed to never meet a single Korean that wanted USFK to stay.

    Admittedly, in the hundreds of casual conversations I’ve had over the years with Koreans I’ve met while traveling around the country, the actual subject of USFK staying or leaving hasn’t come up very often.

    I do remember taking my son to a hospital one time to get his tonsils removed. The doctor spent way more time than normal explaining the procedures he’d be using. The (Korean) people in line ahead of us were in and out in no time – which is typical when visiting the doctor’s office in Korea. It felt like we were getting special treatment. And then on the way out, he handed me a little folded note. I took a quick look at it when I got outside his office. It said, “Thank you for everything you do for our country.” I looked back into his office and he smiled and nodded his head. I was in uniform, so obviously, he knew I was in the military. I suppose you could say that he didn’t explicitly say he wanted USFK to stay . . . but that’s what it felt like to me.

    It’s too bad you never experienced anything like that in your nine years in Korea.

  • Leon LaPorte
    3:48 pm on December 12th, 2013 19

    18. I’ve been thanked by many Koreans, even young ones, as a soldier and as a civilian. In all my experiences overall I’d have to (guesstimate) rate 80% Pro-American and 20% Anti. As in most countries, there’s a middle ground with a silent majority who just go about their daily lives. We only see the radicals on both ends of the spectrum.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    8:08 pm on December 12th, 2013 20

    @16- Guitard I agree that Uijongbu has largely shed its gijichon image which I think had a lot to do with the close out of so many bases in the city in 2005. The Uijongbu Mayor back then Kim Mun-won had closing US bases to improve the image of the city as a major campaign objective. Along with closing US bases the city has done a lot over the past decade to further improve the city. It is amazing how much the city has changed in just the 14 years since I first step foot in Uijongbu.

  • guitard
    9:15 pm on December 12th, 2013 21

    I agree that Uijongbu has largely shed its gijichon image which I think had a lot to do with the close out of so many bases in the city in 2005.

    Uijeongbu never really had the gijichon stigma to the extent that TDC and other camp towns had it. Probably because of its size and proximity to Seoul. TDC’s economy was always linked directly to the US military presence; but that wasn’t the case for Uijeongbu.

    What gijichon stigma Uijeongbu did have was long gone before the camps started closing. The only thing resembling a gijichon that was left after 2000 was the tiny ville outside of Camp Stanley. And while Stanley is always described as being in Uijeongbu, it’s no where near the downtown like all the other camps; rather it’s located next to a correctional facility and surrounded by mountains and rice paddies on the distant outskirts southeast of town.

    As I mentioned previously, outside the main gate of CRC is a club or two, a tailor shop, and maybe a phone shop that caters to GIs. Before it closed, LaGuardia had one juicy bar right outside the gate. But outside Essayons, Kyle, Falling Water, Sears, etc. – all the clubs had disappeared long before the camps closed.

  • Judge and Jury
    10:12 pm on December 12th, 2013 22

    As Guitard and GI helped to illustrate, Uijeongbu is the example of what may very well be in store for TDC.

  • guitard
    7:00 am on December 13th, 2013 23

    Judge and Jury wrote:

    Uijeongbu is the example of what may very well be in store for TDC.

    I’d say the jury is still out on that. As I mentioned – Uijeongbu is larger and closer to Seoul. In fact, Seoul’s Dobong-gu abuts with the south side of Uijeongbu. For all intents and purposes, Uijeongbu is like Bucheon and Bundang – which are satellite cities of Seoul.

    TDC, on the other hand, doesn’t have that connection with Seoul; either geographically or in terms of public perception. And it has a couple things going against it ever becoming like Uijeongbu: it’s located in the northern hinterlands – but perhaps more importantly – TDC still has that gijichon smell to Koreans. It’s like a stain on a jacket that can never be completely removed. So even if/when the US military leaves, the stain might fade a bit . . . but it’ll still be there . . . and will continue to be there for a long time.

  • Judge and Jury
    8:02 am on December 13th, 2013 24

    23,
    Well, if you consider the housing enterprise in full throttle midway between Uijeongbu and TDC in the once much-quieter town of Yangju, perhaps TDC will not exactly be a northern Seoul satellite, but it will be part of the development that is very similar to the Bundang and Pochon growth. TDC has much more of it’s own identity nowadays that does not depend on a smelly old GI stain. I’m not so sure TDC is such a blemish to Koreans because of its current condition, or if it’s because of the reputation of TDC’s heydays as the wild cowboy ghetto of the earlier days, and they just chime in with turned-up noses. There’s a pretty nice downtown now, and Dokjon is not just a stop along the line to Bosan either. I don’t know what the locals around Pyongtaek are saying about their new city, thanks to USFK, but there’s a whole lot of stain that dwelled in Anjongni for quite a while.

  • guitard
    8:39 am on December 13th, 2013 25

    I’m not so sure TDC is such a blemish to Koreans because of its current condition, or if it’s because of the reputation of TDC’s heydays as the wild cowboy ghetto of the earlier days, and they just chime in with turned-up noses.

    That second part is exactly it. The reputation it’s had since the end of the Korean War still hangs over it like a stubborn yellow dust cloud. I suspect it’s going to take a generation or two before that goes away.

    Ultimately, the best indicator is property values. Those nice, new apartments popping up all over north of Uijeongbu only cost a fraction of what the same apartment costs in Seoul, and are a lot cheaper than what the same apartment costs in downtown Uijeongbu.

  • Retired GI
    10:10 am on December 13th, 2013 26

    # 18 Check back to my #7 comment “Your average Korean, under the age of 50 years, wants America to leave and do it soon.”

    As a military person, you should have learned my now to “Pay attention to the details”. After all, I learned that as a Private. What happened to you?

  • guitard
    11:22 am on December 13th, 2013 27

    Retired GI wrote:

    # 18 Check back to my #7 comment “Your average Korean, under the age of 50 years, wants America to leave and do it soon.”

    As a military person, you should have learned my now to “Pay attention to the details”. After all, I learned that as a Private. What happened to you?

    You’re trying hard to put on a brave face . . . but sometimes it’s best to just drop it and hope that no one notices you disappeared from the conversation.

  • Larry Anderson
    12:27 pm on December 13th, 2013 28

    War is over BUT the threat is not. I was at Camp Stanly/DMZ/Camp Mercer 1967-68 and Camp Greaves DMZ 1977/78. The difference in the country during the 10 years was outstanding. From dirt roads and isolated, barbed wire, ak ak guns at Kimpo air base, etc. replaced by widened and paved roads, the tank traps and narrow pass thru with huge cement beams to be blown and dropped down to stop enemy advances, etc. The change in Seoul of the main highway, the placement of huge walls around the campital, addition of large tall buildings in Seoul, etc. STILL the quancet huts in 2nd Division esp. forward of the Imjim. Still maintaining a mandatory fighting force of 95%, etc. alerts, attacks, patrols, and yes, bars and fun for all when men had a chance to get out. I stopped long ago blaming, faulting any men during that time, penned up, lonely, pressure, away from home, friends and family. I was the medic, tried to clean up disease and control issues, health and welfare BUT who judges? Poverty of the people, not some forced and evil practices, just common whereever there has ever been or ever will be a military of any nation, any time, any place. So the people and nation wish to progress, clean up image, promote values and family, all very good. I have been back a couple times since, mostly passing thru to the Philippines but did stop in 1999 to visit and recognized NOTHING! I testified at the time of AO used, if any complaint, the people there have a right to know, as does every soldier, of the USE OF AO in Korea on a wide spread basis 1967/69 at least and still remained supplies in the 2nd at least in 1977. Those are tougher issues and reasons to ask, complain and demand answers for today, where was it disposed, used and contaminated and how to affect people today. War is an every day threat there and will be worse soon as China is threatening and moving forces and power to threaten. Korea has historically at least the past couple centuries, been a puppet of either China, Russia or Japan. To seek self identity and security is paramont so encourage and assist but KOREA can never be left alone or else to be surely over run by China, usually using another puppet for excuse and figure, as N. Korea. Take care friends, we all share some things with Korea, hope not all bad.

  • Retired GI
    5:06 pm on December 13th, 2013 29

    #27, a quote is a quote. Try again.

  • guitard
    9:14 pm on December 13th, 2013 30

    Retired GI wrote:

    #27, a quote is a quote. Try again.

    A great scholar once said that a very thin line separates bravery and stupidity. You’ve crossed over from simply trying to act brave. While it’s rather sad to see . . . it’s entertaining at the same time. So by all means – keep it up.

  • ChickenHead
    9:45 pm on December 13th, 2013 31

    No great scholar ever said anything about a thin line…

    …being that most things are separated with a thick, blurry ling that makes it difficult to know exactly when the condition has changed.

    There is even a slightly blurry line between sucking a diick and not sucking a diick… close to your mouth, on your lips, in your mouth but with no contact, just your tongue touching, lips passively sealed around the shaft, full-on schnarling while you rub one off…

    …blurred further by the variable of willing enthusiasm…

    …or 5 skinheads holding you down in a prison shower with a shank pressed into your guts.

    Where is the fine line that defines you as a diicksucker or not?

    So… I never did understand all those “thin line” and “fine line” quotes.

  • guitard
    11:08 pm on December 13th, 2013 32

    So… I never did understand all those “thin line” and “fine line” quotes.

    You raise a very important and interesting point.

    I think part of the confusion is the basic interpretations of the two words “thin” and “fine.”

    Thin sometimes has the same meaning as fine, but fine can have many interpretations which can be the opposite of thin.

    If I say “That is a fine coat you have.” It is understood that the coat is a good coat, or perhaps a fancy coat. Not at all the same meaning as “That is a thin coat you have.”

    With “…a fine line between…” and “…a thin line between…” the differences are less distinct. The words first convey the degree of separation between two things. But the words also carry a secondary interpretation of the quality or condition for that separation.

    Fine also carries the interpretation that the line may be so small as to be nearly invisible, and may be only a line by definition or description. We can say the same with thin, but we really need to add modifiers to thin to make the line nearly invisible (extremely thin, invisibly thin, very thin, etc.). Thin by itself, implies that the line is still a distinct and visible entity.

    Since the phrase I used describes a state of mind, which is not a concrete object, I usually prefer using “thin line.” But I now realize that may be misleading to some, so I’ll use “fine line” henceforth.

    Proudy ~

  • ChickenHead
    11:42 pm on December 13th, 2013 33

    There is an excellent, first-class, first-rate, great, exceptional, outstanding, quality, superior, splendid, magnificent, exquisite, choice, select, prime, supreme, superb, wonderful, superlative, of high quality, second to none line between bravery and stupidity.

    Hmmm… that definition of fine isn’t working for me. Anyone?

  • guitard
    1:29 am on December 14th, 2013 34

    “Second to None” should be only be used to describe 2ID. I guess you can be forgiven though since you’re an Osan guy.

  • Retired GI
    11:43 am on December 14th, 2013 35

    #30 I believe I will. As you have failed to address the quote. You picked what you thought you could use and ignored 90% of the comment. Now, when your failure is pointed out, your resort to quoting “famous” people. ;-) Good dodge guitar!

  • guitard
    2:05 pm on December 14th, 2013 36

    So you really want to go the “examine the quote” route eh? OK, fine.

    You made numerous statements that wildly conflict with each other – three of them all in one post:

    Your average Korean, under the age of 50 years, wants America to leave and do it soon. Like yesterday.

    I and 90% of the Korean population want America to leave ASAP.

    I never knew a Korean that want the US to stay.

    I then asked you if you are sure a Korean who supports USFK even exists. To which you replied:

    They existed during MY nine years Guitard.

    In spite of your conflicting statements, you later state quite emphatically that there are Koreans who support USFK . . . at least . . . there were when you were in Korea. So how is it in nine years of “traveling far and wide” that a person who is “informed on the subject” never knew a single Korean who supported USFK??

    To follow up on the polls . . . I literally couldn’t find a single poll that indicated that a majority of Koreans want USFK to leave. But polls are “a complete fiction” . . . so I guess it doesn’t matter either way.

  • Denny
    2:13 pm on December 14th, 2013 37

    #3 US will never leave South Korea (or Japan) for selfish reasons, not altruistic reasons.

  • Retired GI
    2:28 pm on December 14th, 2013 38

    Nothing conflicting Bob. Go back and look. I agree with the fiction of the polls.

  • Retired GI
    2:30 pm on December 14th, 2013 39

    Denny, they said the same thing about the Philippines. Sure it took almost 100 years, but to everything there is a beginning and an end.

  • Denny
    2:48 pm on December 14th, 2013 40

    But Phillipines can’t develop nukes, while South Korea can.

  • Larry Anderson
    4:54 pm on December 14th, 2013 41

    And the people of the Philippines, by huge margins, would beg the US back. The Philippines cannot long exist nor will it, free from the US assurances and protection against China. The ecconomy in the Philippines has crashed since the ouster of US bases. Pres. Aquino was surrounded by Chinese councilors, herself being Chinese, chose to invite China instead, give duel citizenship and allow take over ecconomically by China. The entire nation is owned by China the peso rate once with US was 1 to 1, then 8 to 1, now 44 to 1, tells a lot. As in Korea, but much weaker now without the presence of US forces, the Philippines is under threat, even attacks by Chinese sponsored rebels as the PLA. The US poured billions of dollars into the ecconomy here, jobs, prosperity, easy to get visas to the US, many proud Filipinos served in the US military. The Philippines now is part of the UN one world order plan, told every step to make, media and politicians fully supporting every move the UN demands. The only balance against complete absorbtion of the UN is the Catholic Church. Outlaw all weapons, can’t have a pocket knife, can’t hardly find one, no bb guns, no air soft without license. Global Warming demands, no control over their own resources, directed and ordered thru UN radicals and they are convinced by all told them, the Filipino has faith that others care, but the only care I see from the world is a master plan to take over and create a paradise as a playmate.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    5:11 pm on December 14th, 2013 42

    41. The Catholic Church IS the biggest problem in the Philippines (and the rest of the developing world). They love pregnant, poor, uneducated, overpopulated, hunger countries. Offering false hope that the next life will be better as long as you obey them, pay them, praise them in this life.

    It’s too bad the Vatican contains so many historical treasures. A well executed strike might wipe out one of the biggest sources of evil on this planet. The sub-cults and off-shoots would be harder to target but it’s not impossible if we have the will to free ourselves from the yoke of oppression.

    Just think, if as many children were raped at Denny’s as are raped in churches, there wouldn’t be one Denny’s in the US that would not have been burned to the ground by now.

    Of course that illustrates and even bigger point looming over the entire conversation. If I knew a child was being raped, I would stop it. God? Not so much apparently.

  • Retired GI
    6:28 pm on December 14th, 2013 43

    Larry Anderson, you seem to know the situation well in the Philippines. I’m impressed. As for the Philippines, I’m still pissed off about 1991. As far as I’m concerned they can be absorbed by the Chinese and enjoy their captivity yet again. Not the business of America any longer. I feel the same about the two Koreas. Not the business of America.

  • Retired GI
    6:32 pm on December 14th, 2013 44

    Leon, so can I assume that you are just as anti-Muslim as you are with the Church?

    Or are you one of those that is afraid to speak out against Islam?

    The Church is easy to be against isn’t it? They don’t fight back.

    Not so easy to be against the same actions when committed by a Muslim is it? ;-)

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    6:49 pm on December 14th, 2013 45

    44. I am anti-religion, Islam is a blight on mankind and is even worse than Christianity (which is a very close second). Not that it matters that much and the childish “what about Islam” silliness is tiresome. You see, Islam has very little effect on the average Americans life. Christianity is an insidious part of American culture so we tend to focus on it. Actually I fear Christianity and Christians much more than Islamist. If the Christian extremists ever get what they want many of us, including many who *think* they are Christian or claim to be Christian might find ourselves on the crucifix or a burning stake.

    Why Larry had to bring this crap into this thread and others just highlights his insecurity.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    7:09 pm on December 14th, 2013 46

    43. Now back to the real world. Yes, the Philippines brought the US leaving on themselves. I do note, just as in Korea and Japan, that it is a small vocal minority that wants the US to leave – these people victimized the Philippines. Many Filipinos self identify as being (or having been) considered “almost Americans.” The US and Philippines share a long history, some good some bad, but much longer and closer than the US and Korea.

    We do not have permanent bases there, but we really never left. Granted we do not help them economically as much as we once did.

  • Judge and Jury
    7:34 pm on December 14th, 2013 47

    #25-
    trying to get back to original topic…

    Within more recent years, the TDC ‘Ville was ostensibly labeled a Tourist Zone, or something like that, and also cleaned up and had some outdoor features such as exercise equipment, a performance stage, a few large directory signs and some street art added. Perhaps looking back in 20-20 hindsight, some of the city Fathers and Mothers might wished they hadn’t invested so much in making the ‘Ville attractive, because it has had the effect of perpetuating the stain, and even strengthening the off-post bonds between 2ID and its local business merchants. In subsequent effect, this partnership bond gives ammunition to the argument to keep Casey open, in partial deference to these business relationships.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    8:17 pm on December 14th, 2013 48

    46. I’ve seen the exercise equipment used about 3 times. ;)

    But seriously, I think TDC got the idea to try to clean things up a bit from Songtan. There was also post-flood money to be spent. It is also important to note that the subway was coming in around the same time frame. It may have been dictated to use the new space under the elevated tracks in such a manner by a higher jurisdiction as I have noticed this phenomenon is not limited to TDC.

    They also wanted to change the name at one time to something like Star City.

    As with all things, as they say, you can gold plate a turd but it’s still a turd.

  • guitard
    8:52 pm on December 14th, 2013 49

    They also wanted to change the name at one time to something like Star City.

    Perhaps they could just use the literal translation of the town’s name . . . or would that be too podunk? Dongduchon = East Bean Creek.

  • Larry Anderson
    10:12 pm on December 14th, 2013 50

    LaPort, seems you had a poor life, mistreated by someone and completely missed the boat on sense of religion or purpose of life. The Philippines has been given hope, purpose and future only because of the Catholic Church. I am by far Catholic but have a respect for that religion as well as many others. I can see the good, and bad of individuals involved where ever, you can’t seen to fathom the benefits as outweighing the bad. The Dark ages was not because ruled by any religion but because it was developing from paganism to Christianity which offered an uplife of all life, guide and purpose. Sure there were misappropraited law, rule and education, not because of religion but because of evil minds that used Religion to subject, same as with any of the pagan kings, etc. of then or now. There was a great awakening as science began to reach into the homes and lives or people. It was the pagans who sacrificed to feed lions of the people, of slaughter of innocent men and women, children because they dared believe in Christianity, your premise is quite backwords. It was the self proclaimed Gods as themselves who have been the real issues of destruction and death. YOU seem to know nothing of Christianity, maybe reveals how you were raised, sorry for your neglect as a child, but is that what you pass on to generatiosn to come? The Catholics here in the Philippines went thru horric destuction, I am here with my family and saw it, felt it and experience it. I was side by side with myself and family as people lifted each other and shared, sacrificed and cried together. This was the Chrisitanity you would deny! There is here now the hope of a brotherly concern under Christ, not an indoctrination. The Catholic Church is far less intrustive into lives then the UN mandates of the interference of the NON CHRISTIAN self righteous who declare who sould do what, how to live and by what laws. Your future rule by the UN will satisfy your athiestic viewpoint, I am sure you will be well pleased as people are dictated to by the state, by socilistic standars and not by Christian. When freedom becomes obsolete and the LAW is greater then any freedom. Keep yourself drugged, drunk, dizzy with social dead ends and endless arguments when your world and life of all around will pay the price. This world if you can understand, is headed to a massive war that has never been witnessed before and that, my friend, because of ignorance and let the issues you argue cloud reality. As Clinton was about giving away American business, rights, secrets, weapons, etc. all were concentrating on his infidilities with Monica and missed the real issues. AND NOW, you cannot see the events unfolding daily as you are clouded in self justification for what you are not.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    10:17 pm on December 14th, 2013 51

    50. Excuses excuses. I feel sorry for you sir. You never had a choice. You have been so utterly and completely brainwashed there is no reason to continue the discussion. You are so lucky to have been born to a Christian family in a majority Christian nation. What are the odds? I will only add that not everyone who is not a Christian has been mistreated. It is only because there was no brainwashing or it didn’t take. Otherwise, you folks could wait until a child reaches the age of reason to begin your teachings. You are a prime example of why they do not do so.

  • Larry Anderson
    10:23 pm on December 14th, 2013 52

    GI, sorry also you interpret as such, but the people here are not the guilty ones. The people love America, would always have voted enmass to be a state, and still would by huge majority. The entire nation, language, educational system, engineering, roads, etc. adapted from the US. It was the fault of the US not the Philippines who supported Aquino, Chinese, to be president. She was the one who dictated to a confused people after fall of Marcos, to bring in China and under guise and excuses, if not ignorance on her part, to think the Philippines would be a moral and good place if not for the prostitution and bars around every American camp. The people are fantastic, work hard and endlessly for scraps. They believe that every American is good, and there is no evil in America, sad to say we have sadly abused the image, even more so since Obama first took office, the first thing Hillary did was to come here to convince the Philipines to sign off on huge rules to allow the UN power and invite China, Korea and Japan to essentially take over, promising the wealthier nations would make up for the sacrifices. No manufacturing, no processing, cannot handle their own minerals, etc. If you have ever been here, really and not just the bars, you would see an entire different world. One of simple trust, desires to progress and frustration over being outcast beyond their choice. If you were here during the earthquake, the typhoon you could easily see the real people. It seems in Leyte there are far more athiest, in Bohol, there is a gentler more caring atmospher where every tricycle must have a bible verse or reference, where people stop to pray and meditate where ever as the antham plays, the prayers are said at 3 and 6. I am not Catholic, don’t need to be to understand there is a lot of good there, not what I prescribe but in part and as long as anya values or principles uplift the people, that is good. Perhaps there are other choices too, but that is also freedom, to choose.

  • Larry Anderson
    10:43 pm on December 14th, 2013 53

    LaPorte, your saving grace here is that you seem to at least undestand a little of the filipino people that they are the friends, allies, and brothes of the US, even some were with us in the Rev. BUT by far, you seem to have no real understanding of greater purpose, values and principles you attack so vehemenetly. I did choose my course in life, was totally free whatever I wished to do, never recall being told I could not do or go, and many times looking back, that was quite dangerous rather in rapids of the river, climbing moutains, challenging rattle snakes or angry bulls, playing with gun powder, hunting and fishing, etc. Never had to be told, seems there was always a sense of some responsiblity as that is the way we were raised, before. To teach principles and then we chose the path ourselves. I was not born any religion and free to chose any or none. I could have used drugs, could have been a draft dodger, could have run and joined the ANTI which so gloriously attacked the men who did go, fought and many who died. That is the honor I stand for today, even as we will completely disagree, I was the medic who cared and whose principles saved and served. I continue that today, I have had to make choices for my principles, including giving up all I had a few times for what was my choise as to value. Including where I am and the purpose I am here now. There is no Christian principle that enslaves sir, enlightens and guides, the sad fact too in many cases, it allows ignorance and misues because what you do, how you live and choose is your own to live by, die by and judge by. Since I believe sin is any act, decision that a person truely believes is wrong, then we are all judged differently, perhaps because of your circumstances you are not able to see, understand or live by standards above ability to live by. BUT there are also natural laws, laws of nature that cannot be so easily dismissed but in the end, all are faced and paid. You wish to smoke your pot, you change man laws, deny health and reason to fit your choices but the consequences can never be dismissed, the problem is though in that, those sentiments and purpose to thwart, excuse and change for personal choices are detrimental to all of society. Something no pot head will recognize or understand. religion sir, is the hope that is all that can or will save any of us, or the world. Perhaps in time you may see that, and perhaps learn what Christianity is, not what it is warped to misuse or abuse.

  • ChickenHead
    10:49 pm on December 14th, 2013 54

    “No manufacturing, no processing, cannot handle their own minerals, etc.”

    Having experience with manufacturing in the Philippines, I can confidently state Philippine culture is to blame for its general failure.

    …and until Philippine culture can overcome its all-consuming practice of the Seven Deadly Sins, and its inability to think long-term, the Philippine people will continue to live in poverty while they toil for cultures who are not encumbered by this.

    At some point, it is probably worth explaining why the Philippines is the textbook case for the evils of the Seven Deadly Sins… though anyone who has lived there likely needs no explanation.

  • Larry Anderson
    11:24 pm on December 14th, 2013 55

    I see daily businessmen here from Europe, all trying to make a niche to be here as the best place on earth! Surely has some benefits for most, especially if a little income. BUT the fault is not the Filipino and if you spent time here, cared and got down to earth with the culture and people you will understand it goes really very deep and far, even before the Spanish got here, culture and history mis. This was an idealic society, sure they had wars from invaders from China, etc. over centuries but that was not a huge issue as all attacks had to be limited due to separation of islands. Where foot holds were made by Muslims, invaders of one sort or other, there was a strong native alliance to protect their shores. BUT as a whole, the people lived easily, food and demands mostly easy to meet, fish and food from the sea, water and elements mild. The culture was not demanding so as the Spanish arrived, was not so hard for the Spanish to over come. The Spanish rule forced rule by weapons and religion as it was in South America. To read some of the history by the priests may be intersting as they observed, then set out to control morals and practices. The people were heathenistic and as such, by todays standards, impossible to maintain any sort of freedoms in a world advancing and powerful always looking for colonies and conquests. IF not the Spanish would have been another, if not Christian, another and far worse by anyone’s definition. When the Spanish ruled, they were not interested in self improvement, education, individualism, etc. but in obedience, in poverty to keep them ignorant and obedient. As America came along, we set them free in some ways, gave them higher laws and hope, but always the US business and military was in power. The people believed they always have to told how to do anything, that they cannot do themselves. Their identiy was that of those in control, and we as care givers, seldom thought to make them self reliant or self starters or it could have worked against American businesses. I find the Filipino as intelligent as any people anywhere, capable and hard working. BUT lack only in self confidence. If they have direction, they have no limits, but to teach them, allow them, encourage them to be independent and believe in self has been the issue and challenge. In medical missions or jobs, etc. introduced here, the object is to share, to teach new methods, to enlighten and they can do very well on their own. Their love and faith in America, Americans is heart breaking since the US so easily snubs and sells them out to other interests, as China, Korea and Japan. I tried for years to get recognition here, from Clinton onward, it was only Obama who showed an interest and sent Hillary here immediately after his first election, BUT the reasons are not clear, to impose UN mandates, to confuse, to demand signing away of self rule and rights! Not the textbook of any deadly sins but the textbook of trust, innocense and blinded love of the US.

  • Bones
    11:26 pm on December 14th, 2013 56

    How did this conversation go from “unhappy with 2ID residual force to Filipinos, the Catholic Church and the Philippine economy”? As been mentioned before, the Korean General’s ain’t gonna let 2ID go nor USFK for that matter. The “villes” are dying out because it’s to easy for GI’s to get in trouble and it’s expensive plus wives and girlfriend play a part. The 1st BCT ain’t going nowhere. Humphreys will be filled by units that were at Long, Eagle and other units that were in that area. I would not be surprised if they bring back 2nd Bde with 2nd Tank.

  • Larry Anderson
    11:35 pm on December 14th, 2013 57

    ChickenHead
    Certainly all have potential for good, it is born into the hearts of man, but twisted, squeezed and tainted by very young ages since all are given the Spirit of God, all are equal as children of God and all are together in life from God. So there is a natural and inborn wish to succor, to care and to be free, but along the way, perhaps DNA also tweeks away the sensitivity, the natural love and care from men. Surely thru choices and actions during life, children turn towards other means and matters forgetting the spirit of kindness and friendliness that came with their lives. I do not believe that every person is a blank slate and all we are comes from experiences and circumstances, but that ehere is a lot to do with Genetics, but it is also true, Where much is given, much is expected. Where there is understanding there are higher means to live by and judge by. Hopefully, even the cynic, the procrastinator, the doubters also have an open heart and mind to greater law and responsiblity beyond themselves. That is Chrisitanity sir, even the spirit of it, if not all the law, it is the essence of the Laws of Christ, to love one another, to care, to give, to sacrifice and share. If a person has those basics, regardles of religion, there is also justification in Christ. Rather a person knows, believes, understands fully one way or another is not the point but what is done by what is believed in benefit of man in general. BUT ecconomies are made by man, given by God thru natural resources, so even the wealth of nations is based on reason and hope to improve the path of the future, conserve all you have, maximize all other resources that preserve your own. In principles it would be easy to correct, adjust and administer a path to prosperity of a nation or individual.

  • Larry Anderson
    11:53 pm on December 14th, 2013 58

    Okay, facts are: Korea has always been a marginal nation, dependent upon neighbors and treaties to survive or exist. China, Russia, Japan pick and align which neighbor is presently in position to allow existing family to be nominally in charge of their country. The present situation has been the best ever for Koreans, but still the same fact, cannot survive on their own. They must either side with one power or another. That will depend upon which currently has the power to maintain as much freedom as posisble for the people. The moment the US has no presence, they have no power and the pressure will be to join another alliance. Since the Japanese Chinese wars at least 1894, then the Russian presence, then the Japanes from 1904 thru WWII, Korea was managed by Japan. The experiment almost gone billy up was the dividing of N and S after WWII, that in thanks to the Russians who joined in the “alliance” against Japan only after the end was sure and the cost was negligable, thus claiming rights to share in the spoils they had lost in 1905 treaty with Japan after humiliiating defeat. IN SHORT, all such discussion is meaningless for Korea can never be independent and free, they must choose sides, today that is China or the US. Anyone who would believe China is not the major factor in all that goes on in NK must be completely ignorant of purpose and methods of china or so hopeful in peace that reality cannot be considered. The Philippines comes into play the same way, the Philippines must be protected and preserved by the US and allies or it will quickly be taken by China who already desires and declared such interest and as Philippines go, so goes Korea as well as Japan. Japan cannot survive long, cannot deny or protect themselves against the growing threats of China without the US, so as uncomfortable it may be, Korea will only survive as Korea as long as US forces are committed to turn the face of Chinense designs a little longer.

  • Judge and Jury
    1:40 am on December 15th, 2013 59

    56-
    Mostly incorrect.

    “‘Villes dying because its to(o) easy for GI’s to get in trouble…” What does that even mean? As if they could not get into trouble easily in previous years? Or, is there more law enforcement presence, more command presence, and a curfew to boot? I think you were more correct referring to the high prices, and the price of a hustle for a good time has gotten higher.
    As for 1BCT not going anywhere – wrong. The plans are already firmed up. Soon enough GI will post here the confirmation of the plan to make USFK a rotational assignment, and to fall in on materiel pre-positioned on peninsula. Casey will relocate its 2-9 INF and 1/72 AR to Humphreys, and assume more of a RSOI-type posture for rotational units. 2BCT/2ID will come back – but as a rotational unit, not for residency at Casey.
    TDC will continue to grow up around the edges of Casey and Hovey. The Uijeongbu growth has and will continue to push up to Camp Stanley’s boundaries. That’s one camp that might close sooner than Casey, even with the CBRN battalion that moved there earlier this spring. Humphreys will host the new USFK/ROK Combined HQ, and the ash and trash from 2ID, CRC and Yongsan.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    2:17 am on December 15th, 2013 60

    59. Wait until they figure out the shortcomings of the rotational unit theory. While it looks good on PowerPoint slides, I am guessing it is doomed to fail. They can barley function in the one/two year tour environment. A great many things would have to change or the units will just be playing catch up until they rotate out. Institutional clock watching among other things will cause problems.

  • ChickenHead
    3:09 am on December 15th, 2013 61

    ‘“‘Villes dying because its to(o) easy for GI’s to get in trouble…” What does that even mean?’

    It means if you take cheap and easy public transportation to leave the overpriced and restrictive areas where bored and over-enthusiastic town patrol, who “owns the ville”, looks for any minor violations of politically-inspired rules and chase down the enforcement flavor of the month, you can walk in a large noisy smack-talking group while you binge drink, hoot at girls, kick car mirrors, lie in the street and get carried back to a hotel… all after curfew.

    What kind of lazy dumbazz would bother to stick around in the ville?

    It has been getting worse and worse since 2001… with dramatic dips every 3 years or so.

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    3:17 am on December 15th, 2013 62

    61. Yes, and it was in the ville merchants and military’s best interest to take care of things in house and not let them blow up into town, state, national or international incidents. The idiots forgot that in the name of political correctness and excessive and overzealous enforcement. Now the GI’s wander out and get in trouble with the real Korean public. But J&J knew all that, I would hope.

  • guitard
    10:04 am on December 15th, 2013 63

    Leon LaPorte wrote:

    Yes, and it was in the ville merchants and military’s best interest to take care of things in house and not let them blow up into town, state, national or international incidents. The idiots forgot that in the name of political correctness and excessive and overzealous enforcement. Now the GI’s wander out and get in trouble with the real Korean public.

    I think there’s more to the story. It’s not just excessive and overzealous enforcement that chased GIs outside of the ville. Think back to the ’70s and ’80s – the ville was all there was. If you ventured outside of it, what was there for the average GI that was fun/interesting and where were GIs welcome? Korea didn’t have squat for entertainment/recreation and Koreans weren’t used to seeing foreigners back then.

    But now there is fun and entertainment around every corner – and a GI is just another of the tens of thousands of other foreigners. Not to mention getting around is a lot easier now too.

  • Judge and Jury
    1:11 pm on December 15th, 2013 64

    So if the Villes are dead, then the Koreans who demonstrate for the closing of the bases are interested in more interested in what?

  • Retired GI
    2:20 pm on December 15th, 2013 65

    ““what about Islam” silliness is tiresome”. I feel the same about the anti-Christians Leon.

    I don’t take “anti-religion” individuals as anything other than an annoyance, UNTIL they specifically mention Islam. Then I take “you people” seriously.

    I had a Liberal associate try to dispute that his meme was only concerning Christianity. He said it represented ALL religions. But the book in the meme had “Bible” clearly written on the cover. I have zero respect for that.
    It is too easy to be anti-Christian. They are not going to remove you from your head. Plus, it is Politically Correct to be against Christianity.
    It is NOT Politically Correct to be against Islam. I give respect to the anti-Islam group. The Anti-Christians are doing what is approved by Political Correctness. Too easy! No respect is due.

  • Retired GI
    2:40 pm on December 15th, 2013 66

    #52 “if not for the prostitution and bars around every American camp”. I laugh at your simple reasoning Larry.
    There has not been an American Base in the Philippines since 1992. I went to Angeles City in 2009 and the Bars are now THREE stories tall. With a minimum of 30 girls per bar! Why is that Larry? You can’t blame America forever. You sound like the Catholic Nuns in 1991 when it was announced that the Americans were leaving. They thought prostitution was the fault of Americans as well. But Prostitution is alive and well NOW, Larry. Hotels are not owned by Americas there.
    Let me tell you why there is Prostitution in the Philippines Larry. Because the Philippine People are Poor and Uneducated Larry. That is the only reason prostitution exist anywhere!
    You blaming America after so many YEARS is the reason I’m very happy that America left such an ungrateful island nation. That and the greed of the Philippine Leadership. Your people have not the ability to look to the future. At least the Koreans can do THAT much.
    Yes, I have been to the Philippines. I have been out to the small islands of Samar. I was the 1st “white” person that most of them had see, face to face. You know what they tell me Larry? They tell me not to go anywhere at night and not to go anywhere without members of the family with me in the daylight. That is what I know about the Philippines Larry. A corrupt “country?” from the ground up. At least I don’t have to worry about being kidnaped or killed in Korea Larry. I can’t say that about the Philippines!
    The fault is with the people in the Philippines Larry. Sure they are nice as long as they can get something out of you. But really, that is everyone from everywhere. As long as you refuse to give the blame where it belongs Larry, the Philippines will never become anything other than a few nice beaches and a cheap place for Prostitution.

  • Leon LaPorte
    3:53 pm on December 15th, 2013 67

    65. I think I was pretty clear. Look at what I said minus your agenda blinders and accept it on face value. I will make it clear for you ALL RELIGION’s are sh*t. That includes the one’s you like as well as the ones you do not. Clear?

    56 and 63. good point(s), your post was not lost in the forest of non-broken blather and rantings. Apparently, paragraphs are an egregious sin. There’s not much there to pick from in those giant blocks of text anyway.

  • Retired GI
    10:36 pm on December 15th, 2013 68

    I’ll make it Easy for you Leon. Forget the “all” religions.

    Tell me in terms easy enough for EVEN me to understand.

    How do you feel about Islam and those that follow it?

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    10:42 pm on December 15th, 2013 69

    68. Islam is a vile affront to human dignity and those that follow it are brainwashed animals.

  • Retired GI
    11:05 pm on December 15th, 2013 70

    Better!

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    11:11 pm on December 15th, 2013 71

    69. Why is that so important to you? I find them all equally objectionable. It’s not either, or – it is NONE.

  • Bones
    11:48 pm on December 15th, 2013 72

    @59

    You appear to be a rookie when it comes to Korea. Plans were made to move Yongsan when I was first stationed there in 86. Even though 3 Bde’s were moved
    off pen, you still have 3 Bde’s on pen. 1BCT, Aviation and Fires. Humphreys is Aviation not a Tank and Infantry post, Casey is. Leon is correct, the rotational thing wont work for reasons stated. As for RSOI that’s been going on since 2000 it didn’t work out, to much money not enough time.

    Korean’s demonstrate because it’s something to do, most have no clue as to why they are doing it.

    To be specific about getting into trouble easily: if you are intoxicated you are in trouble, if you are under 21 and intoxicated you in trouble.

    If you get caught trying to buy sex you’re in trouble
    If you don’t have a battle buddy you’re in trouble
    If you are carried back to the barracks you in trouble
    If you defend yourself you in trouble
    If a Korean accuse you of wrongdoing, even though you were at the PX you in trouble.

  • Judge and Jury
    7:01 am on December 16th, 2013 73

    72-
    All of your replies are pretty simplistic, and although there is truth in them, they are not wholly true.
    So what if plans to move out of Yongsan were discussed in 86 – don’t doubt it. And yes, I knew there were discussions of the same, but I don’t need to deride others for not including all the trivia. Further, they were not these plans that are in effect today, with the construction of major facilities – housing, hospital, USFK headquarters, Fires Bde facilities, etc. Back then, they were broad, generalized, hopeful, and anything but agreed to.
    As for the 3 brigades being still on ‘Pen’, I assume you falsely believe that 210 Fires Bde will remain on Casey – wrong. Some of the Bde’s elements will remain, but they will no longer be headquartered there. And you proudly proclaim Humphreys to be an aviation base – true; however, Humphreys served MI aviation and not much of anything else for a long time. Humphreys is being added to, and not kept as an aviation base exclusively, therefore not just a home for aviation. The 2ID Combat Aviation Brigade, which is another ‘brigade’ as you identified, is not at Humphreys either, it is at Seoul Air Base, aka K-16. So much for aviation at Humphreys. The 210th Fires Brigade is headquartered at Casey, true – however, there are elements of this brigade in several locations, and their new headquarters is already constructed and has been dedicated – on Camp Humphreys. The final relocation plan, or whatever Scaparotti and the ROKs might agree to, will have these circumstances to adjust to.
    As for the rotational plan, it is a done deal. Regardless of LL’s opinion, which is just that, and your agreement with it, I believe you are holding out against hope, or you are using reason and logic and foreseeing too many problems. That is not going to make the rotational approach keep from being implemented. BTW, I agree with LL that they will be playing catch-up from the time they arrive until they leave, but that predictable growing pain and that predictable learning curve will not stop the plan. And since the plan will be put in effect, some of the pieces regarding relocating 1ABCT’s two combined arms battalions (2-9 and 1/72) and the substantial re-purposing of Camp Humphreys can begin to make some sense. Think RSOI-ish here, and even though you downplay its significance, there is a huge logistics piece that supporters of the rotational plan are looking at, and Humphreys and Casey have their respective roles to play in it – Casey as a pre-positioned wartime training base from which to arrive, train, and depart, and Humphreys as the command and control center from which to orchestrate the maneuver and movement. These may be broad explanations, but I believe they are reasonably close to what will happen.
    As for Koreans demonstrating – wrong. While they might be put up to it, or paid to do it, they are surely always calculating for some angle, for some highly dramatized display to cause a public outcry. Since you are perhaps such a seasoned Korea-watcher, why were they demonstrating so vehemently outside CRC back in 2001? Nothing better to do, you think?

    As for trouble, take the time to review the UCMJ reports kindly posted by GI, and you’ll find ‘em all in there, ranks up and down, behaviors brought on by lack of self control. It ain’t just the ‘Ville, and it ain’t just too many rules and regs. Trouble is the fool’s paradise. Too many postings on that topic for this thread.

    Only a rookie like myself would have any clue about these things.

    I may not know all that you do from 86, but I know a few things, and I listen carefully. Take the spite out of your bite.
    Cheers.

  • Larry Anderson
    7:10 am on December 16th, 2013 74

    GI
    I think you completely miss whatever I have said, of Philippines. I am here and have been working with these people for 15 years. I have never had a threat of any kind, nor my family. I can leave my house and go anywhere with no fear whatsoever anytime, midnight, any hour any day. I have had nothing but the utmost respect from everyone, the beggers and street people to the Governor, etc. I have not said I agree with the reasons nor of the ignorance that prositution was of any concern nor issue but I did say Pres. Aquino thought that and that is her reason to ask the US to remove. She was not a politician but a Chinese who married and found herself in such a position riding the hight of her husbands fame after death. She had advisors who had desires to bring China in and America out. I have been around quite a lot, in Korea 68/69 and 77/78 witnessed and worked with the military of course and the people. ONE HUGE GOAL was to lesson disease for both populations, especially VD, and also to fight the corruption in the medical field of my fellow medics who would water down and sell anti biotics in the ville. The CO of the 2nd Division personally appt. me to be his personal rep for all medical concerns of the 2nd Division and to report and to bring all units to best standards as I had done with my own unit. WE were required to maintain a 95% fighting force, including men on leave, pass or sick. I also enjoyed greatly my time with the Korean people and military. I have also assisted Korea as well as US Servicemen in claiming and reporting AO use and contamination while in Korea, I also share the great concern of the disposal and placemnet of AO even as late as 1977 when ordered to turn in all remaining supplies for disposal. You can find my words and reports thru the media even as there were media from Korea who personally met me at my place in America to gather information to assist the Korean people. For the Philippine, I am here, have been and will be here awhile longer. I just met today, again, with military personel and shared feelings and warnings, of the people, the nation and the fears and real dangers of what is happening. I am also not so foolish to dismiss the utmost danger of China and it’s threats towards all this part of the world. I don’t dismiss the threats of China towards the US. The Philippines is strategically so important that China has desings to take and use as bases for control of the entire Asian theater. Whoever controls the Philippines controls the entire interests of Asia. I am not so shallow to dwell upon any single reason, purpose or excuse of any consequence, rather the Philippines or Korea, etc. I would be thrilled to share any and all I have seen, done or think. The US owes a great deal to the Philippines historically and blood wise, as they do to the US. In meeting with military officials today, I was really assured of the love and devotion of the people and nation of the Philippines to America. Everyone needs to study the ties of these two nations and that foolish leaders, greed, corruption, etc. are not unique to the Philippines but they learned very well from American politicians and businessmen. The corruption here I would wager, is even less then it is in our own Washington circles. We have little room to point fingers! The truth of poverty is not simple to discuss but rather simple really to solve, doubt it will be even as the US is falling into abiss deeper then this place. Once the US dollar falls from grace and is no longer the worlds standard, our dollar will plummet and the useless paper it is printed on will be as German marks of the 1920′s. Very glad to discuss any depth or details your choice. LarryAndy@aol.com

  • Retired GI
    7:34 am on December 16th, 2013 75

    71 Leon, the reason is because it is easy and Politically Correct to accuse Christianity of all the evils in the world.
    Normally Islam is not included in this. The Media is largely silent on Islam. I find this to be dishonest in the extreme.
    I also find it refreshing when someone states, undeniably, that Islam is evil to its core.
    I am with you, to a point on Christianity. As I live in the so called Bible Belt, I see Christianity for what it is, a means of control over the population of largely uneducated individuals. But it is excepted control and even a desire to be controlled. The more hopeless a persons future seems to be, the more they tend to turn to Religion.

  • Retired GI
    8:13 am on December 16th, 2013 76

    #74 You hit on many areas Larry. I agree with most of what you said to one degree or another. I do not agree that the US owes anything to the Philippines, or Korea for that matter. We should have left Korea in the mid 90s. Mission accomplished in Korea. It was strong enough to make it on its own. Philippines is a different situation. The PH will never be able to defend itself from China and therefore needs America. Not the other way around. While I do agree that the corruption of the PH is not even close to the current levels of corruption in the US, there is always a chance for “change” in the US. Not so in the PH. The corruption in the PH is from top to bottom and all the way through. Provence to President. If you want to get anything done in the PH you had better be prepared to pay, and I mean pay every month of every year. If you are not prepared to bribe every level of government and again their replacements, you can forget about the PH. If you want to know the best hotel in Angeles, watch where the Police Chief hangs out. If you want to get something done in the provinces, get ready to pay off the local government and the Church.
    Yes, the PH wants the help of the us NOW. China wants to take over. But I recall a story from a few years back about the locals selling the sand off their beach to the Chinese. So I don’t feel sorry for them. Should the US defend the PH? NO. Not unless they give up permanent area to the US for bases. Permanent. No frigging RENT. The PH is far too corrupt for that to ever be allowed by any intelligent country again! Facts are facts. If they don’t give area to the US, China will come in and take what they want. Perhaps the people of the PH will be happier renting their women to the Chinese than to the Americans. A possibility. I only mention that because that seemed to be the most important thing to the Catholic Nuns in 1991 when the Americas refused to go any higher on the “rent” for Clark and Subic. All the good jobs that were lost to the PH people because of the greed of the PH government and it’s short sightedness.
    You cannot speak of the “good” of the PH people when the best hotels in Manila have Airport styled security outside. You cannot speak to the good of the PH people when you risk being shot in the back because you are “white” just by walking on the sidewalk in Manila or Angeles city. A retired Marine died on the front steps on the hotel I was staying at in 2010 when I was there in Angeles. In 2009 a person from my home town was shot in the back in Manila, while walking down the sidewalk. In 2011 I sent my then girlfriend out for band aids and later went to the hotel doctor (Chinese). She asked if I had gone “outside” for the medical supplies and was relieved when I said that I had not. Even in little Samar, my family there tells me to stay in the hotel when they are not there. Not to mention that the prices for everything go UP if I go with any of them. Yes I know it happens in the US also, but not to that extreme.
    The PH has great potential. But it is doomed by the greed and ignorance of the people and their leaders to never realize any of it.
    The future is this; it will give to the US for protection or it will be taken by the Chinese. You say that important people listen to you. Tell them that.

  • guitard
    11:13 am on December 16th, 2013 77

    Bones wrote:

    Koreans demonstrate because it’s something to do; most have no clue as to why they are doing it.

    Judge and Jury wrote:

    As for Koreans demonstrating – wrong. While they might be put up to it, or paid to do it, they are surely always calculating for some angle, for some highly dramatized display to cause a public outcry. Since you are perhaps such a seasoned Korea-watcher, why were they demonstrating so vehemently outside CRC back in 2001? Nothing better to do, you think?

    J&J: There weren’t any demonstrations of note at CRC in 2001 – I think you meant 2002.

    As for why do Koreans demonstrate . . . you both hit on aspects that are true . . . but J&J is talking about the leadership and Bones is talking about the followers.

    As J&J eluded, the demonstration leaders know exactly what they are doing; they quite literally are professionals at this stuff – it’s what they do for a living. And they absolutely are very calculating in the way they go about it.

    And as Bones eluded, a lot of the people who show up (the followers) have no idea what is happening behind the scenes – it’s just something to do.

    To sort of illustrate this . . . back in 2002 I found a flyer on the floor in the elevator of my apartment building in Seoul. It was asking people to come out and protest against USFK at the main gate of Yongsan. The funny part about the event was that it included prizes for the oldest/youngest person who attended, the largest family who attended (if I recall correctly – they won a kimchi refrigerator), the family with the widest age gap between youngest family member and oldest family member, the largest group of students from the same school, etc. Of course, the organizers were also going to provide refreshments and snacks.

    So for the vast majority of attendees – it was just a social event. However, for the demonstration leaders – it was a well organized “show of force.”

  • Leon LaPorte
    3:23 pm on December 16th, 2013 78

    75. From your post, we are in complete agreement. The goal of course is to educate and downplay acceptable means of control. After all, slavery was once an acceptable means of control. I stated plainly why Xianity is a target, it affect our society more, that is all. An Atheist in Tehran (and there are atheists in Tehran) would likely most often focus on Islam.

    This may help explain: http://reason-being.com/index.php/2013/04/11/why-do-atheists-pick-on-christianity/

  • Larry Anderson
    8:33 pm on December 16th, 2013 79

    GI
    Sorry always to hear of problems by another. BUT what you say is limited to your experiences in Manila area, Luzon, etc. BUT far from the reality of many provinces. I feel safer going thru streets of Manila, etc. more then ever many of the streets of the US, Chicago, LA, NY, how many others! I don’t say that important people listen, some do and we share comversations, hopes and plans, very many good people. And for honest politicians, I know a couple personally, wonderful, dedicated and supremely honest, Erico Aumentado was one, he died last Dec 25, he dutifully cared and sacrificed, I could tell you story after story of that man and how he cared, gave his own substance and life for the people. I personally knew him, his family and now his son, who is Congressman in his stead in Bohol. The present Gov. Chatto is a good man, very intelligent, a different manner of governing but I would say honest. There are military persons here, high ranking, very honest and share many concerns. The people as a whole, majority, love America, would sacrifice for us again as they did in WWII. We do owe them tremendously if you understand history and their part from WWII thru Korea, etc. I knew a few Filipino American Vets of that era, now all gone I personally knew but we screwed them badly too, promised benefits, citizenship, etc. but it did not pertain to their famiies who could not benefit, could go into personal knowledge on some of that too. The US has taken advantage of the Philippines since 1898 but paid back too. The Philippines is Crucial to the US interest in all ASIA, if China does take this place, all Asian interest are endangered, compromised. China is planning to take everything, everywhere, they are very well advanced in this place. AND IT WAS NOT THE FILIPINO PEOPLE who threw America out in any way, it was thru Pres. Corazon Aquino at the time. She was not a politician but put in place thru political intersts, with Chinese intersts, perhaps because as you say, bribes. I can personally tell you I don’t have to bribe anyone, sure many will take advantage because we are foreigners and they think that we all are rich. BUT I find very few really dishonest but regular people and families. I can tell you of the direction things are headed and since my children are going to school here, have a good insight into the direction of socialism as well. The UN has been the huge culprit with the US pushing all into a ONE WORLD GLOBAL ORDER, giving up all personal choices. The pouding of Global Warming, the indoctrination to force them to allow China, Korea and Japan to take all resources while the Filipinos are not allowed to develop, process or manufacture anything. The US GUN LAWS forced upon the people, that will surely make China happy as they move in, no weapons, not even pocket knives or BB Guns allowed, thank the UN. I could always attack any other place, the US included, have been to Mexico and know full well you don’t ask if something can happen or do but how much it costs to do or happen. As well as south america, etc. BUT the same in America, we could all find manye examples where ever. In fairness to the people, the Philippines is a lot larger then the places you mention or have seen, and very different just as it is in the US. THE PHILIPPINES CANNOT STAND, WILL NOT without the US, and we must decide if we will stand by them or sell out and with that, all our interests of Asia. China even now is creating treaties and alliances to cut traffic and influence in this part, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. and the Philippines is key to traffic going thru this part of the world, if Philippines goes to China, how long before S. Korea and Japan are forced to sign non agression pacts or alliances with China. Korea has always been the puppet of the strongest powers of the times. Our presence in Korea is as much demanded as it is in the Philippines as well as in Japan. I fear too many have no understanding of powers in motion. It is not if, but only when. The so to speak, DIE is cast, has been for a long while. China is patient, but methodical. Watch our own boardes, our own states, our own ecconomy as well as South America, thru to Venzuala, Uruguay, Paraquay, Brazil, etc. We are in deep trouble sir and we cannot stand alone, even the US is threatened and not time to cast away friends and allies. KOREA EVEN NOW SEES ALLIES AS IMPORTANT WITH THE PH, as of yesterday at least, there is a contingent of Korean soldiers who are committed now to spend a year here in assisting to rebuild an area in Leyte that was devastated. Where is the same from the US. We could not move fast enough to pull out support of the George Washington fleet, sorely needed still. I see things daily, live and dwell together with the place and people on their level, I see many Europeans here as well, many more now German then before. Even Russians, Astralians, Dutch, etc. and are doing business. I don’t ever see threats to anyone here and just was in Cebu yesterday, no problems ever towards myself or family and had my very lovely 15 year old daughter along, worst came of anything were stares and cute remarks to my daughter, but none really offensive and certainly threatening. Try again Sir, come on by and see the people outside of a limited area that has been corrupted and violent if that i what you met with, it certainly is not that way here or where ever I have been. BUT I HAVB BEEN WARNED by some members of the family to be careful of places in Manila, just as you may be warned of places in any huge city in the US. Till then, the people of the Philippines will send their love, greetings and best wishes to All Americans.

  • Judge and Jury
    4:28 am on December 17th, 2013 80

    77-
    Rookie mistake. Go-map-da.

  • Retired GI
    10:51 pm on December 17th, 2013 81

    Larry you put out a great deal there. My own Philippino family in Samar are the ones who warn me of danger out in the Calbayog city. But in truth, there is no reason to go there other than they live off the coast on a small rock. “as of yesterday at least, there is a contingent of Korean soldiers who are committed now to spend a year here in assisting to rebuild an area in Leyte that was devastated. Where is the same from the US. Your kidding Larry. The Americans are there helping not only the disaster area but also with the PH fight with the Muslims in the southern island. “THE PHILIPPINES CANNOT STAND, WILL NOT without the US, and we must decide if we will stand by them or sell out and with that, all our interests of Asia” Perhaps the Philippines should have thought about that in 1991! Rather than continue to increase the “RENT” for Subic and Clark Air Base. The Philippine government (made up of the Philippine people) revealed itself to be ONLY a greedy, fair-weather friend. If a “friend” had treated me the way the Philippine Islands Treated America…I would never left a finger to help him. As for the gateway to Asia, I think not. China doesn’t gain much if it absorbed the Philippines. nor does America lose anything other than a fair-weather friend. Who really needs one of those. Korea is no different in that respect!
    As long as America stays out of China’s way, the only trouble that will ever come, will be on the heads of the people of the Philippines and Korea. Both of which will adapt very quickly and learn mandarin and open brothels for the Chinese. Koreans love the Chinese and will welcome them with open arms. The Philippine people will do the same and wonder why their government pissed off the Americans, as they rent their women to the Chinese.
    The Germans, Australians, and other Europeans living in the Philippines will pack up and go to Vietnam or back home when that happens. It would likely be a much safer place for the Chinese than the Europeans and they would never leave. Then the Philippine people would be 2nd class in their own country. I do not wish it, but I would not cry about it either. The Philippine Islands should not have betrayed the America that was so kindly paying “rent” for bases that they built. I remember that Fed Ex once attempted to do business in the Philippines. But the greed from the Philippines was too great to be successful.

    http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/02/06/09/fedex-leaves-over-700-filipinos-jobless
    http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/ReadersSubmissions2013/reader8121.htm

    USA

    The USA had provided $20 million. They initiated a massive military-driven rescue operation which included a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, George Washington along with its strike group consisting of 5,000 crew men. They took action commencing with the deliverance of water, food and medical teams. They provided more than 80 aircrafts with aims of transporting supplies and carry the injured to the George Washington for medical care. In Tacloban, Guiuan and the Samar province Charles Drew, a Navy cargo ship along with U.S. sailors transported over 1900 gallons of water and food.

    http://bistado.com/news/scam/fed-ex-philippines-custom-fee-duties-and-taxes-scam/

    http://business.inquirer.net/133641/fedex-cant-operate-in-ph-appellate-court-rules

    http://www.pissedconsumer.com/reviews-by-company/fedex/never-ship-to-the-philippines-with-fedex-20100714189473.html

    http://www.rappler.com/business/industries/171-aviation-tourism/34532-ca-cancels-fedex-permit-to-operate-in-ph

    Bottom line is that the Philippines is a BAD place to do business. Unless you like the idea of setting up the business (FedEx) and then being told you can’t do business.
    Or if you are allowed to do business, being taxed as often as possible and having no rights. If you like that, then go ahead.

  • johnnyboy
    12:47 pm on December 18th, 2013 82

    #81

    Like you were saying with the FedEx Issue, I sent a Sony PSP via the FedEx branch on Casey to family in the Philippines. If I recall, it was around $50 to send in the first place. Once it was at its destination, it was subject to some sort of “import electronics tax” to the tune of about $80. I was a bit upset, but what else could I do? If the tax wasn’t paid, I assume it would have been held for a small amount of time before it became some Filipino FedEx or postal worker’s new toy.

    I figured out after that, it probably would have been cheaper to send $100 or so to the family so they could purchase one loaded with games from a second hand store in the Philippines. Maybe that was the intention of the “import electronic tax” all along, if it really existed in an official capacity to begin with.

  • setnaffa
    1:43 pm on December 18th, 2013 83

    @51 “Otherwise, you folks could wait until a child reaches the age of reason to begin your teachings.”

    No. Kids pretty much learn values up to the age of 5. After that it’s all just vocational stuff…

    @78, “After all, slavery was once an acceptable means of control.”

    Who sold the slaves to the so-called Christians? Who still uses slaves? And you want to compare the USA and Iran as equals as regards religious freedom? You’re intellectually lazy and just trying to double-talk your way around it.

  • Leon LaPorte
    5:28 pm on December 18th, 2013 84

    83. You’re a blind apologist who will not even entertain any possibility other than the one in your narrow and limited scope.

    Good day!

    I said Good day! :razz:

    /…and Merry Christmas.

  • Retired GI
    8:11 pm on December 18th, 2013 85

    Relax guys. Every race has been a slave to some other race at some time.

    the only ones that still cry about it and what to be thought of as “victims” are the “African” Americans. For some reason they are unable to move forward. At least if you listen to their “leaders” Sharpton and Jackson.

    Merry Christmas and my 2014 be better for you all.

  • Larry Anderson
    8:44 pm on December 18th, 2013 86

    Retired GI
    Seems you have had your own bad experiences but too bad you did not see more of hte people. I have been in and out 15 years on a very close basis, involved in very dep issues and with the people personally. I can see the issues in some areas but no worse and not as bad in many places in our own country. Greed no more so here then others either, and try to compare issues in the US try your tax corruption and greedy folks frome every governmental office, from City, County, State and federal. There are always issues, complaints but in being subjective and realistic, I have run into far less here then in the US. Should send you an invite here to see yourself, would be glad to introduce at every level. I could get caught up in some issues too but find way to much to do without any problems, poverty is an issue anywhere. You must have gotten some bad examples somewhere but the people here are not anywhere near Anti American, HUGE Majority would sacrifice all for America and I can never go a day without being thanked and the praise and honor the people at every level heap on America. Yes, I am here, was here and am quite involved in relief from the streets to cities, from begger to Governor and can tell you not once have I heard anything but praise, BUT the US is limited to what is requested of them, not an invading force but a friend as I appreciate, but there is so much more could have been done, still needs done. I referred one patient, an injured 4 year old for help, payed some expenses and got into Cebu, there they were able to get the US Airforce to even take to Manila free. I have nothing but highest regards for all involved, just wish the US would have come ashore here, we still need them badly, with medical and technical advise and assistance.
    AND you must not be so involved in affairs to not realize the importance to the entire peace and military values of this area if you cannot see or understand the issues of the Philippine strategically. And the people would not accept Chinese take over any more then they did Japanese. The Filipino served with honor, with love of America and tends of thousands, hundreds of thousands died for our sake too. And they served in Korea and Vietnam, would still choose to join the US forces if we still had that option for them. AND IT WAS NOT THE FILIPINO people who booted America, it was the Chinese backed and influenced president folowing Marcos.
    For the relief, there is no doubt and is not missed upon anyone here, no way to say anything less then blessed by America, as should be always expected for these people and our ties to them. One day we will be back as allies, perhaps to be friends more then controlling. What level of issues would you like to see or discuss? You are welcome to email me anytime, LarryAndy@aol.com. Again, I am living here, kids going to school here, working with medical, hospital, individuals, going to Church, shopping, traveling, walking, taking local transportaion, etc. what closer level would you ask for?

  • Bones
    11:26 pm on December 18th, 2013 87

    @73

    There’s no spite, I just explained to you the reality of Korea. No General on this earth will let the firepower the US brings go. They always make plans for this or that, and it don’t happen, it get’s renamed, 210th is an example, when 2nd and 3rd Bde left they took their FA BN’s with them 2/17 and 8/8 to be exact.

    Reading your post, it’s difficult to figure out if you agree or disagree to be exact, you state it’s true but not wholly true which is code for ” You are correct, but I’m gonna disagree with you anyway”.

    To relax you a little bit, you will be gone before those “plans” take affect.

  • Retired GI
    1:29 pm on December 19th, 2013 88

    Every small town is nice Larry, and that is all you have.

    In your comments you have:

    1. Blamed America.

    2. Made excuses for the Philippines.

    The only difference between the PH and Korea, is that Korea really can get along without America.

    Learn to speak Chinese Larry.

  • Larry Anderson
    8:26 am on December 20th, 2013 89

    Retired GI
    Sorry you seem to have had such horrific experiences,I have been in Manila and Cebu as well as Dumagetti and live in Bohol. I have heard of issues in Manila but have never had any issues and I have walked the street a lot, gathered a bunch of street kids living under bridges, boxes, etc. and got them all a nice meal at Jolly B’s, they went to the CR, washed up and sit down like real gentlemen, a great time and smile but sadness is that it is only one time. In turn I have found groupls doctors, business, medical missions, medical and school supplies, even a nursing home set up a training school in Cebu to train and bring over 100 nurses at one time. Sure, Bohol is more rural but a population of 1.5 million plus, bigger then my place in the states! If anyone were to judge the US by Ft. Worth/Dallas, SF, LA, NY, Boston, Chicago, even Omaha, NE and Kasas City, etc. could find much more danger and assults! I guess anyone in a bad neighborhood in all honesty takes risks. Sorry you met with bad circumstances, I have not nor anyone I know. I don’t think I will venture to Mindinou and surely don’t look for places to get into trouble, no more then I would anywhere else. I have been to SA, Central America, Korea, etc. and could say the same anywhere, get to know people, they are usually as anywhere and anyone else (not Sure of the Muslim States). I stand by, sit by, walk by and live by Filipinos. Kids go to school and I ride their Tricycles daily, take the bus or jeepney and get along just fine. Would recommend to everyone this place and people. Try something different GI, share with, meet and enjoy! BUT AS FAR AS BLAIMING AMERICA? I can blame a lot on politicians, BUT my roots run deep in America, from Jamestown, Mayflower, MA Bay Clonies, Hugonots, Quakers, Penn Dutch, early Presbyterians, etc. and have a record of cousins and direct relatives thru out the entire US, there was no place developed without at least influence or direct presence, even to this day, of my relatives. Fought in every war, developed this nation from ground up. I write of their history and have thousands of stories and dozens of books I share of those families. I have loved, fought for and offered all I have for my country, as much probably as yourself and I honor every veteran. I served with my men, honored them as they did me. BUT I cannot agree with some of the directions of this country today. EAT CHINESE, SURE, and even in the good ol USA you will feel their sting as they are promoting, invading, preparing, taking over even in the most remote places of the US, WHY? Could surely give you plenty of details, hope you and everyone wakes up when and if there is still a chance to save our future and from horrific war and massive destruction that will not leave a single person untouched. Better count friends, solidify and encourage, NOT EVEN THE US CAN STAND ALONE! If I blame the US it is for real issues, not my Country but political correctness gone mad. It is the politicians, not the US who are destroying our securities and future, very deliberately! If you are retired military, it is impossible you could have served without seeing, being in and affected by hostile action, you should well know the issues and that we cannot sacrifce any nation, any friend, any ally and the Filipino is very worth our efforts and caring. Try seeing the people GI, you may be plesantly surprised to see wonderful, caring, loving people who just love and trust America completely. They love Obama and think he cares, they love all we have, all we are and all they see of America. Tehy make wonderful friends, wish you could meet some and see yourself. SAME AS KOREANS, once past the GI GATES and VILLE, you could discover some very good and honest people, just as concerned of life, family and future as anyone else in this world. Merry Christmas, may the spirit of the season fulfill your wishes and family as well.

  • ChickenHead
    9:45 am on December 20th, 2013 90

    Larry Anderson, can you be at the Cebu airport this Thursday, December 26, to pick up a package of clothes which you can distribute as you see fit?

  • Larry Anderson
    11:09 am on December 20th, 2013 91

    Yes, That would be the 26? It would make a wonderful present for some, if really so, give me a brief ahead to know who would be getting the items, kids, adults, whatever, would be a fun event for my kids to participate in handing out such things and getting pictures of it. If you wish to send something as such, I should get your email at least, some information to show you the distribution and people receiving it. I am going to Maribojec tomorrow by 1 PM to deliver some simple Christmas packages, a little Candy, some food and toiletries and tooth brushes, just a little for the kids at least. It is one of hardest hit areas. Would always invite you or anyone here that would love to enjoy the spirit and friends of these people. Thank you for your thoughts. So far with family donations and friends, we were able to save at least 2 lives, a mother who ran into her house during the earthquake to save her 9 year old son and was caught under a roof beam, saved her leg and life from gangreen. The other, at least, is a 4 year old boy, his father is American but born here with his Filipino wife,there are 3 siblings, Kevin was seriously injured and it took some doing and convincing doctors to do more, then to send to Cebu to a major hospital, the US Airforce got involved and flew to Manila for special assistance in the end. Several others who were helped from illness and injuries and 2 houses provided but then a group I was asked to join is putting up 500 homes. I think the organization is called Vaccines for the Philippines, based in the US. My email is LarryAndy@aol.com Always glad to share, report of situation and hear from others. I have my family of wife, 4 kids, 7, 13, 14 and 16 here with also my severely handicapped son with Spina Bifida caused by AO used in Korea, 68/69, he is covered finally by the AO program and recognized as such admitted finally after so many years of cover up. I do not try to hide nor fear sharing my name and info, always happy to hear from any other vets, and to assist with any issues of AO in Korea. Larry Anderson

    Larry Anderson
    Air Port Road, Cogan
    Tagilaran City, Bohol
    Philippines 6300

  • Tom Leonard
    2:01 pm on December 20th, 2013 92

    I only found this blog the other day. I was stationed at Camp Santa Barbara. in 65/66. That country has changed a lot since then. But reading all your comments. All the complaints remain the same. I was with I corp’s 2nd of the 76th Batt.”B” I for one tried to make the best of it while I was there. And I have some fond memories. I was lucky to be with a great group of guys. If any one who reads this happens to remember me? Drop me a line

 

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